01/31/2011 MM: "War Stories"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I would have not given BSC trample.  First off, increasing its cost is completely irrelevant; no-one hardcasts an 11-mana creature, and if they do, forcing them to wait for one more mana hardly makes a difference.  So giving it trample just means it's deadlier when someone Tinkers it into play on turn 3.  Secondly, with trample and infect it's just a double-strength DSC, just another beatdown fatty, not anything special and new.  But infect is all by itself an alternate strategy - instead of trampling over blockers, you just infect and destroy them, no matter how big they are, even if they regenerate or are indestructible.  The only thing that could thwart a trample-less BSC forever would be a repeatable token generator, and that makes sense - if you keep throwing new guys in front of him to keep him distracted, you survive.  But any single creature, no matter how badass, will die to BSC, if not now then soon, and so your doom is inevitable just as soon as you fall short of blockers.  That's a very fitting message for Phyrexia's ultimate weapon.  It doesn't have to have trample, because it doesn't have to kill you right now - it will kill you eventually no matter what you do (virtually no matter what, I should say), so you stalling only delays the inevitable.  That would feel very Phyrexian.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
(Also remember, that post mythic rare being added, rares aren't as rare as they used to be.)



This is a blatant lie.  You still get one rare in a pack, only now that rare is a mythic one time out of eight.  So, buying the same number of boosters (nevermind paying more MSRP for them), you get 7 rares instead of 8.  They are in fact MORE rare than they used to be, because some of them have been split off to become mythics, which are even rarer still.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
As one of the most inveterate Vorthoi on this forum, I am actually totally okay with Ichor Wellspring.  Sure it doesn't really make flavor sense, but by attaching a rather random snapshot of the war to a card with no real flavor inherent in it, they're able to use a card concept that doesn't really speak for itself.  Seeing this giant pustule of Phyrexian oil bubble up out of the razorgrass fields - there's not really any way to capture the essence of such an event in a top-down design, but it's definitely a contributor to the overall feel of the set.  So having it have an ability that's sort of random is totally fine with me.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
(Also remember, that post mythic rare being added, rares aren't as rare as they used to be.)



This is a blatant lie.  You still get one rare in a pack,

Yes, but now that rare is one rare from a set of 60 1/2 rares (in a large set) instead of one rare from a set of 88 (in a large set).

In a small set, as this one is, it's one in 50 instead of one in 40. So the individual rare cards are indeed less rare.

What I saw as a trifle disingenuous in the article was that people were likely to declare Blightsteel Colossus as "Public Enemy #1". That debate has already been waged back with Rise of the Eldrazi.

Large fat creatures, provided they're expensive enough that they can't enter play until the game is likely to be over anyways, are not going to break formats. It's cards like Sol Ring or Dark Ritual or Tinker or Demonic Tutor that break formats.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

Triplepost?

You are missing two simple truths:

  1. A deck that Tinkers a Colossus (or even Pipers the damned thing) is already doing silly shenanigans.  Blightsteel doesn't significantly break it more.

  2. If a game gets to the point where it can be hardcast, that game damn well should end soon afterword.

Willpell, you didn't feel like just posting once?

They are in fact MORE rare than they used to be, because some of them have been split off to become mythics, which are even rarer still.


The key phrase there is some of them have split off to become mythics. Too tired to do any number crunching right now, but aren't there fewer rares in the set overall? Few enough to make up for the 1/8 of the time you don't open one
And really, if I open a mythic I'm not really complaining. Better than the 3 Distant Memories and 0 mythics I've opened out of 21 packs this weekend.
..... Oh god, the set's MaRo is Gleemax, brain in a jar.

also, I like that Decimator Web is more of a mill card then a poison support card, but it does solve the entire (my keep the board clean and under control has been so effective that milling as a win con is just a way to make it even harder for my opponent to stabilize then an actual win condition) type thing.

.... that's probly because the draw 7 at the start of the game is like decimating the guys again.

and the wellsprings draw card effect makes a kinda sense in that you got to get more support (cards) somewhere.
I wasn't very impressed with the way Maro has dealt with the various criticisms of the Blightsteel Colossus design both in this article and on twitter. I don't think he's made a fantastic case for why the various criticisms of the card aren't valid, and nothing he's said has helped me shake the feeling that if someone had submitted evil Darksteel Colossus for GDS2 they would have said it was terrible design.

On an semi-related note, it seems like his "favorite tweet" contradicts a lot of the what it seems like they are doing currently in design. Avoiding things like LD or counterspells, not printing rares with drawbacks, and the constant talk of sets like Odyssey being mistakes for making players do things that some players didn't like doing all seem like examples of "trying to avoid things that people hate." The GDS2 comments especially make me think that current Wizards policy is that design thrives when it strives to "avoid making things people hate."
(Also remember, that post mythic rare being added, rares aren't as rare as they used to be.)



This is a blatant lie.  You still get one rare in a pack, only now that rare is a mythic one time out of eight.  So, buying the same number of boosters (nevermind paying more MSRP for them), you get 7 rares instead of 8.  They are in fact MORE rare than they used to be, because some of them have been split off to become mythics, which are even rarer still.



It's not a lie.

Ever since the creation of the Mythic rarity, the odds of pulling any single rare has greatly increased, especially for a small set. This is the reason why cards like Fauna Shaman aren't $20, there are simply more of them on the market. There have been many articles about the subject and I encourage you to check them out.

What MaRo was talking about was buying more than one pack. You can't just call mythics rares because they're not; that's like calling uncommons rares, but only show up once in a pack.
 The I think the Blightsteel Collosus problem is mute since we have eldrazi and phage the untouchable has been around for years. I wonder if people do not realize tumble magnet or mind control solves the problem, as does winning before he is an issue. I am mad about green shatterstorm. Green shatter storm just means players will not make artifacts based decks out of fear of being shattered out.
(Also remember, that post mythic rare being added, rares aren't as rare as they used to be.)



This is a blatant lie.  You still get one rare in a pack, only now that rare is a mythic one time out of eight.  So, buying the same number of boosters (nevermind paying more MSRP for them), you get 7 rares instead of 8.  They are in fact MORE rare than they used to be, because some of them have been split off to become mythics, which are even rarer still.



It's not a lie.

Ever since the creation of the Mythic rarity, the odds of pulling any single rare has greatly increased, especially for a small set. This is the reason why cards like Fauna Shaman aren't $20, there are simply more of them on the market. There have been many articles about the subject and I encourage you to check them out.

What MaRo was talking about was buying more than one pack. You can't just call mythics rares because they're not; that's like calling uncommons rares, but only show up once in a pack.



As a Actuarial science major I agree that probability of pulling a rare is slightly less than it used to be, making rares "rarer". You are looking at the probability of pulling a rare, given it isnt a mythic rare. Also the statement "This is the reason why cards like Fauna Shaman aren't $20, there are simply more of them on the market." is subjective and your dollar amount is arbitary with respect to the market. The argument could be made that supply has held constant and demand hs shrank for magic cards since the introduction of the mythic rare since they have the same effect and you can not disentangle the varible.

In regards to the rarity system, I would say it is actually fair to call Mythic Rares "Rares", because they replace the rare when you open the booster. Rares don't replace Uncommons, so I would actually say that sentence isn't far off. (I'm obviously disregarding foils, so please don't say commons are the same as Mythics)

But strictly speaking, the combined number of rares and mythics in current sets are lower than the total rares in older sets (of the same classification of big and small sets). Which means, the rate of finding any specific rare is higher than before. I'm not those who do complicated maths calculations, but even with the 1/8 Mythic Ratio (and hence 7/8 rare), to find a speciifc rare is still easier. (And if anyone wishes to prove me wrong, feel free to do so, but please with the proper calculations).

Of course, the universal agreement is that a specific mythic is harder than anything before (and when I say before, I refer to 11Commons, 3Uncommons, 1Rare period in boosters, I think some really old boosters had no rarity system in place).

And on the topic of Blightsteel, I wouldn't say its broken. Its like Emrakul and friends before it. They cost an absurd amount of mana (which one shouldn't actually reach in a proper normal game). The only reason is because of the ways they can be cheated in.

Its like the counterspell arguement. There are always strong people in either camps and they all have strong reasons. If the titans (Not the M11 ones) stop all game interaction and end the game, one could argue that by countering spells, you are also stopping game interaction, but instead of ending the game, you are stalling the game. An interactive-less stalled game isn't going to be fun for anyone, either. (Well, you could argue this back, but there are nearly endless points of views out there as well, and chances they will end up unresolved and nowhere.)
Some collected thoughts:

-From a casual player who doesn't really care about breaking formats, Blightsteel Colossus is better this way. Just adding infect makes more sense aesthetically. I don't think it'll break any format that much either. There's enough exile removal these days (Relic-Warder, Revoke Existence, or more long-term Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares). If it hadn't had trample, I would likely have fumbled on it at least once, thinking it did have trample.

-I heartily approve of Decimator Web. I had honestly missed the one tenth thing so far (I blame it on not really thinking about the card), but like Erik Lauer, I have often been frustrated by the abuse of the word decimate.

-I really find it quite amusing how a black mechanic like the Nightmare mechanic wound up on white cards.

Edit:
-Also, Creeping Corrosion should be rare because as uncommon, it breaks limited. However, I think that if you'd print it in a core set, uncommon would be the right rarity: see Back to Nature.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
I hate Darksteel Collossus because it is not going to be fun to play with or to play against ever, just like Emrakul. If you get it into play and it lives a turn (which it probably will, because, you know, indestructable), congrats, you win, the game is over in an entirely non-interactive way. That's fun for the person doing maybe once, and fun for the person it's done to exactly zero times. I know that I'll probably be getting sick of this card really quickly, especially in EDH where it will be Emrakul 2.0

I guess it is an exciting card in concept, but I feel like it doesn't play well in a game that it supposed to be about fun and interaction. I guess we just have different ideas about what makes a good card- I say 'fun to play with', he says 'exciting conceptually', which is a valid viewpoint too.

I also dislike the green shatterstorm in this block (I am fine with green and rare). Artifact decks are not too good right now, in fact they barely exist. And now they never will, because there is an answer to them. I think it was a mistake to make a card that invalidates an entire theme of the block. It would be like printing Endgineered Plague or Extinction in Onslaught or Lorwyn.

And personally, lest I sound too negative, I love ichor wellspring, it makes me want to build decks around it. It's one of my favorite cards in the set along with it's rare buddy Spine of Ish Sha.


I know Pariah isn't in this format, but Pariah combine with the "no-counters" guys are effectively a foil to the new big guy. Yes, poison counts for trample, but poison is not Life points so there are ways to get around it. In the "metagame" the card's too big and too slow when games are regularly over in 5-6 turns. 
I would have not given BSC trample.  First off, increasing its cost is completely irrelevant; no-one hardcasts an 11-mana creature


I've said in Standard multiple times recently, "Not quite to 15 yet." without being kidding about that.  Guess what card from this set is going right into that deck?

Blightsteel Colossus is fine for everything except maybe Vintage where you're blanking lots of other Tinker targets, I'd argue Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus as being much worse news for your opponent.
The end is always nigh.
(Also remember, that post mythic rare being added, rares aren't as rare as they used to be.)



This is a blatant lie.  You still get one rare in a pack, only now that rare is a mythic one time out of eight.  So, buying the same number of boosters (nevermind paying more MSRP for them), you get 7 rares instead of 8.  They are in fact MORE rare than they used to be, because some of them have been split off to become mythics, which are even rarer still.



It's not a lie.

Ever since the creation of the Mythic rarity, the odds of pulling any single rare has greatly increased, especially for a small set. This is the reason why cards like Fauna Shaman aren't $20, there are simply more of them on the market. There have been many articles about the subject and I encourage you to check them out.

What MaRo was talking about was buying more than one pack. You can't just call mythics rares because they're not; that's like calling uncommons rares, but only show up once in a pack.

the main point I'd like to point out is that "rarity" is a fake thing altogether. It's all simple math!

Sets are all printed on sheets of 121 or 110 cards.  That means they have to fill the sheets, so some cards are duplicates, hence less "rare". The original standard was always 1 card per sheet for big sets, hence 363 cards and 121 rares. The new sets still have 1-up rares on the sheet... we just call them "mythic" now. Regular rares are now 2-up on the sheet. This brings small sets in line with the games they used to play with only 2 sheets and printing 2,3,or 4 up cards. Add up the numbers for the last few sets and you'll see the pattern...

You're not being cheated. You always get 10 cards from the Common Sheets 3 from Uncommon, and 1 from Rare in every pack. There are just some "rare" cards slightly more rare than others... exactly 1/2 as likely to be in your pack.  
I would have not given BSC trample.  First off, increasing its cost is completely irrelevant; no-one hardcasts an 11-mana creature


I've said in Standard multiple times recently, "Not quite to 15 yet." without being kidding about that.  Guess what card from this set is going right into that deck?

Blightsteel Colossus is fine for everything except maybe Vintage where you're blanking lots of other Tinker targets, I'd argue Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus as being much worse news for your opponent.

actually the BSC would be an interesting foil to Emrakul... simply because he doesn't actually KILL he just drops it to a permanent 4/4!  Emrakul does "damage" and BSC still deals colorless "infect" counters that are permanent... with 1-2 equipments BSC could block Emrakul... TWICE damage resets, infect doesn't.  And emerakul's Annihilator ability only targets PERMANENTS... so with proper token generation the tokens don't get kicked. 

 
 The I think the Blightsteel Collosus problem is mute since we have eldrazi and phage the untouchable has been around for years. I wonder if people do not realize tumble magnet or mind control solves the problem, as does winning before he is an issue. I am mad about green shatterstorm. Green shatter storm just means players will not make artifacts based decks out of fear of being shattered out.

I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen colored artifact technology now that it exists.  I guess that would make Phyrexia WAY too powerful... and they're more abomination than robot.  Of course they should be worshiping the Myr... they're PURE artifice... no trace of flesh at all!!! 

I also really like the Icor Wellspring. It SEEMS pointless. But in the Glinthawk decks it gives you 4-8 free draws... something White doesn't get very often. A bunch of the Phyrexian cards have "comes into play" & "goes to graveyard" effects like this... it covers for the poor showing in blue they get.  In the prerelease I only got 6-8 blue cards out of the packs... I did better in White than that!
For what it's worth, I was delighted by Ichor Wellspring, and want to pick up at least eight. (And similarly Spine of Ish Sah.) I also loved the white Phyrexians and the Vedalken Anatomist.
Note that because it cannot have counters placed on it and all infect damage is dealt in the form of -1/-1 counters that Melira's Keepers effectively cannot be harmed by infect creatures. It's not damaged by them, so it's a bit of a pain in the side for infect to fight against.


Isnt the bolded part^ wrong?

Damage is still dealt (so Lifelink etc works), its not marked on the creature and it doesnt result in -1/-1 counters being put on the creature either. Right?

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)

I won't comment on the actual cards here.  Not that MaRo would actually read the forum, but even if he did I know from his Twitter comments that he is incapable of seeing reason, or anyone else's point of view.

I will comment however, on the state of his articles.  Is anyone else getting really tired and annoyed with his increasingly unapologetic and unabashed arrogance?  You would think, from his comments that he is single-handedly responsible for MtG.  That he is an oasis of inspiration, a wellspring of creativity, and that no one else really exists on the level of the great MaRo.  To be honest, it was his articles that truly kept me coming back to DailyMTG and reading.  Now I find his articles interesting but really, REALLY wish someone else was writing them.  I get tired of all the "I did this", "I designed that", "I'm responsible for this.", "I wanted that", "I", "I", "I", "I", etc. etc.  Man does this guy ever realize that other people exist?  For someone who supposedly understands the masses and is supposed to be in a leadership position he sure is self-absorbed.  I wonder sometimes, if he realizes that is part of a design TEAM.

When there were rumors that MaRo was gonna step down after Mirrodin Block 2.0 (Back in Alara Block I think), I was worried.  Now I think that is the best thing that could happen to Magic.  Get MaRo out, get someone who is more aware, and more capable of seeing inspiration that isn't his own in charge.

I'm hoping that someone can clarify to me what exactly red does within the colour pie. I can totally understand the justification of Creeping Corrosion, being anti-tech and pro-nature and the main artifact destruction colour... so what does red do besides burn these days?
Blightsteel Colossus is fine for everything except maybe Vintage where you're blanking lots of other Tinker targets, I'd argue Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus as being much worse news for your opponent.

actually the BSC would be an interesting foil to Emrakul... simply because he doesn't actually KILL he just drops it to a permanent 4/4!  Emrakul does "damage" and BSC still deals colorless "infect" counters that are permanent... with 1-2 equipments BSC could block Emrakul... TWICE damage resets, infect doesn't.  And emerakul's Annihilator ability only targets PERMANENTS... so with proper token generation the tokens don't get kicked.  

Emrakul flies so BSC can't block him, and annihilator doesn't target and tokens are permanents. Not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

I would say that BSC is less scary than Emrakul because it doesn't make you sacrifice half your board when it attacks. I think it's scarier than Progenitus though (kills quicker, indestructible, and easier to get out both by cheating and hard-casting).


 


Is anyone else getting really tired and annoyed with his increasingly unapologetic and unabashed arrogance?  You would think, from his comments that he is single-handedly responsible for MtG.  That he is an oasis of inspiration, a wellspring of creativity, and that no one else really exists on the level of the great MaRo.  To be honest, it was his articles that truly kept me coming back to DailyMTG and reading.  Now I find his articles interesting but really, REALLY wish someone else was writing them.  I get tired of all the "I did this", "I designed that", "I'm responsible for this.", "I wanted that", "I", "I", "I", "I", etc. etc.  Man does this guy ever realize that other people exist?  For someone who supposedly understands the masses and is supposed to be in a leadership position he sure is self-absorbed.  I wonder sometimes, if he realizes that is part of a design TEAM.

I don't particularly like MaRo or his articles, but what else is he meant to talk about? He doesn't know what other people's experiences were. When he shoehorns poison back into Magic and then makes stupid creatures like BSC with it I want to hear his reasoning, not "Oh, and so-and-so designed this but I don't really know anything about that because I'm not him."
I wanna hear his reasoning too.  So far, his reasoning appears to be that close-to-unanswerable creatures are more fun than land destruction, and that poison was the greatest thing to ever happen to magic, because having 2 life totals is awesome.  Except poison isn't a life total, and they will work hard to make this differentiation clear.  Still haven't found the difference, but meh.
On an semi-related note, it seems like his "favorite tweet" contradicts a lot of the what it seems like they are doing currently in design. Avoiding things like LD or counterspells, not printing rares with drawbacks, and the constant talk of sets like Odyssey being mistakes for making players do things that some players didn't like doing all seem like examples of "trying to avoid things that people hate." The GDS2 comments especially make me think that current Wizards policy is that design thrives when it strives to "avoid making things people hate."



'Not printing rares with drawbacks' has never been feedback. 'Not printing BIG rares like dinosaurs that are meant for timmy with drawbacks' has been said. 

The 'making stuff people love' is only applicable on individual card level. You can avoid cards you hate. It's harder when a whole block (Odyssey) is about something the majority of players hate. 

 The I think the Blightsteel Collosus problem is mute since we have eldrazi and phage the untouchable has been around for years. I wonder if people do not realize tumble magnet or mind control solves the problem, as does winning before he is an issue.



If a game gets to the point where it can be hardcast, that game damn well should end soon afterword.



Not in casual multiplayer it doesn't. Games begin when people hit 10+ mana =p 

Cards like Emrakul are ruining that fun, I'm very happy it's banned in EDH and I hope BSC shares the same fate.

Phage has never really been a problem.
White has the broadest answers in the sense that there is no subset that it's unable to deal with but that its answers have answers.



Isn't white, together with blue, supposed to have trouble with lands?

Why are the Golems this makes 9/9? Why did I choose that number? Well, the artifact costs 3, cost 3 to activate and requires three counters to make the Golem. Three 3's make 9.



I also like how three activations make you pay 3x3 = 9 mana for a 9/9 =)

This kind of card always has crosshairs on it when it's in a file because some R&D members just don't like cards that don't "make any sense." Luckily, there are also some fans of these kinds of cards so we make them even if not in the volume that we make flavorful dragons and the such.



More, more, more!
With BS Colossus my problem really is that it basically makes Darksteel Colossus not a card.  Darksteel Colossus was cool and people have played it, enjoyed it, and traded for it.  Now BS comes along and totally invalidates it.  When would you use Darksteel when you could use BS?  The one mana isn't enough to make you choose DS over BS and its not like you're going to use more than 4 in a deck.

Keeping trample off simply solves that problem.  Now you have an interesting choice.  BS is still cool, still flavorful, and honestly still probably makes some people mad and thereby sparks conversation.  But without trample you set up more interesting choices and don't invalidate cards.  Invalidating cards is bad for everyone.
As Ianonymous said and as I said when the the card was first previewed, Creeping Corrosion should have not been printed in this set.  There weren't too many good artifact decks when SoM was out and what chance any artifact decks had at making any splash in this format is gone.  Coupled with the fact that there aren't really any of the broken artifacts that defined the original Mirrodin block and the move to white based artifact decks rather than blue (the only color that can really handle this card) it seems that Wizards is mostly trying to bash artifacts to the ground.

I may have been fine with Creeping Corrosion in the last set if artifact decks were becoming strong, but who wants to play a non-blue artifact deck when a good number of decks in standard get a weapon that can defeat them with ease?
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
I actually think the better change is swapping indestructible for infect.  That way, you keep the "terror" aspect while making it more answer-able.

I do not like that the "Master's Call EOT, untap, Shape Anew->BSC, untap, DOJ, win" sequence exists.  Not because of its effect on high level tournament play, but because its so very not fun, and will induce a LOT of frustration when players lose to it.  Making it more answer-able would go a long way in lessening that issue.

Also, corruption tends to mean sacrificing your soul for greater power.  Darksteel is the "soul"" of the Mirrans, and losing it in favor of Infect would allow not only for a "price" to be paid for the increased power, but would also allow room for flavor text on the card. 
I hate Darksteel Collossus because it is not going to be fun to play with or to play against ever...



(Original) Darksteel thread necromancy!


And personally, lest I sound too negative, I love ichor wellspring, it makes me want to build decks around it. It's one of my favorite cards in the set along with it's rare buddy Spine of Ish Sha



Wait, maybe not.

My only problem with BSC?  The art didn't make it clear that this is really the original Darksteel Colossus, now corrupted.  It looks like a giant Darksteel guy, but not THE giant Darksteel guy, if you know what I mean.

I'm not too worried about it's one-shotness; I think there are enough answers.  And hey, if it really does ruin the world, well, this set was Darksteel 2.0, what did you expect?
My big gripe with how Maro's touted Mirrodin's "best selling set of all time" is because it ignored the real reason that the record stood until Zendikar - Darksteel drove players away from the game in spades and sales took a LONG time to recover from that. 
I'm hoping that someone can clarify to me what exactly red does within the colour pie. I can totally understand the justification of Creeping Corrosion, being anti-tech and pro-nature and the main artifact destruction colour... so what does red do besides burn these days?


Red also does haste. It's the color of impulse.

The odd part of Creeping Corrosion being justified because green is the color of anti-tech is that Back to Nature shows that green is even better at enchantment destruction yet that neither gets much of an explanation nor raises a cry among players. I guess no-one cares about enchantments.

White has the broadest answers in the sense that there is no subset that it's unable to deal with but that its answers have answers.



Isn't white, together with blue, supposed to have trouble with lands?


I think lands don't count because Wizards of the Coast makes most lands harmless mana sources to avoid encouraging using answers to land. The few lands with other abilities are either animated (Inkmoth Nexus) so that they can be destroyed as creatures or have other weaknesses, such as Contested War Zone changing controllers or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle requiring five Mountains before it becomes active.

So Mark Rosewater's "no subset that it's unable to deal with" includes cards that can be dealt with by ignoring them or by winning before they matter.

I'm hoping that someone can clarify to me what exactly red does within the colour pie. I can totally understand the justification of Creeping Corrosion, being anti-tech and pro-nature and the main artifact destruction colour... so what does red do besides burn these days?



Red does haste, like someone said upthread, and other "fast" effects. It also does first strike (along with white) and +X/+0 effects (along with black). It also has a lot of artifact hate, just not as much as green, and abilities that require sacrificing artifacts. Red also still has a few "discard and draw" or "shuffle then draw" effects.
I just want to say that, having worked with MaRo for a while now, I find him to be an oasis of inspiration and a wellspring of creativity. In fact, I'd be surprised to discover anyone else really exists on his level.

Oh, and he's my arch-nemesis now.
My only problem with BSC?  The art didn't make it clear that this is really the original Darksteel Colossus, now corrupted.  It looks like a giant Darksteel guy, but not THE giant Darksteel guy, if you know what I mean.



^ This. Seeing some enlarged pics, I was really struck by  the artwork in this set. With the exception of BSC and a few other cards, the cards look great!

Mirrorworks for Wallpaper of the Week!


I'm a little concerned about red losing Shatterstorm to green. I thought there was a nice balance, with green holding the Naturalize standard, and red getting more focused & efficient artifact-only removal. Red kills weenies and artifacts well, but doesn't have much else going for it.
As a Actuarial science major I agree that probability of pulling a rare is slightly less than it used to be, making rares "rarer".

As the holder of an M. Sc. in Nuclear Physics, I will try to explain what I was talking about.

You are right, in a way. Now, there are less rares to go around. You spend $32 or so on eight boosters, and you get seven rares on average, instead of eight rares. So rares, as an aggregate group of cards, are rarer.

However, this isn't what I was talking about, or what Mark Rosewater was talking about... or what has relevance for people who play Magic.

Let's go back to the time before Mythics to make this simple.

In Set A, over at Cartamundi, they print 121 different cards on a big sheet of card stock, and chop it up to make the rares that go one per pack.

In Set B, they print 60 different cards twice, chop the sheet up, and throw the blank card away. One still gets one rare per pack.

If Chase Rare appears in Set A, you will get one copy of Chase Rare, on average, after buying 121 boosters of Set A. If it appears in Set B, you will get one copy of Chase Rare, on average, after buying 60 boosters of Set B.

In the case of Set A, then, one takes 121 times $4 and divides up that pile of money between all the rares in the set, based on the relative demand for those cards, and gets the secondary market price for the cards. While Set A is in print and in Standard.

When they're not making any more of Set A, the price of cards could go through the roof, but when it rotates out of Standard, demand could fall through the floor. So anything could happen afterwards.

In Set B, the pile of money is 60 times $4.

Now, what happened in real life when Mythics came along?

There used to be, in a small set, 60 different rare cards. 60 times $4, split 60 ways.

Now, in a small set, there are 35 different rare cards, and 10 different mythic cards, and each rare appears twice as often as each mythic.

So it's 80 times $4, split 80 ways, between one copy each of the 10 mythics, and two copies each of the 35 rares.

The chance of picking up any one specific rare is what it would be if there were 40 different rares - it's half again as big as the chance back when there were 60 rares. Individual rare cards are less rare than they were before.

So, if a rare is good - it's easier to get, so it's not as expensive to obtain through buying boosters. So it won't be as expensive on the secondary market either.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

the problem with go for the throat is its flavor. In a set desigend around phyrexian-mirrodin war, you are showing a vampire killing a human. this flavor fits to zendikar block not mirrdodin. you should have shown a vampire killing a phyrexian black creature. at the end they are joining the war in the mirrodin side. great card, very poor flavor.
The odd part of Creeping Corrosion being justified because green is the color of anti-tech is that Back to Nature shows that green is even better at enchantment destruction yet that neither gets much of an explanation nor raises a cry among players. I guess no-one cares about enchantments.


I think the thing is, is that Green isnt (usually) supposed to kill creatures indirectly. Artifact creatures are far, far more common than Enchantment creatures. Against an Artifact Creature deck, Creeping Corrosion is a one-sided better-than-normal DoJ!! When was the last time that was true for a mass Enchantment-removal spell?

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Go for the Throat is a terrible name. Terror is such a great and iconic card because the name itself conveys so much flavor, and yet is simple. Same with all the cards that have become classics. Now I am choosing (outside standard) between destroying black and preventing regeneration, but I almost don't want to play Go for the Throat just because it is nowhere near as great a card for flavor as Terror.

I understand going for the throat means you can kill everything except artifacts, but the name is still LAME! Here, I can make up a name in a similar manner: Heavy Dose of High Energy Electrons, Assuming Artifacts Are Magic and Have No Integrated Circuits. I'm going to write this on my copy of Go for the Throat right now.
Maro said the following in his article:

"Once artifact hate was centered in green, it caused some shifts such as Disenchant becoming Naturalize."

And then they printed Revoke Existence.

At least it's a sorcery, so it can't kill blightsteel colossus until the other guy untaps. 
"We will all be purified in Wurm. What is good will be used to heal Wurm, or grow Wurm, or to fuel Wurm's path. What is vile will be extruded, and we will be free of it forever." --Prophet of the Cult of Wurm
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