Character Sheet Correction

71 posts / 0 new
Last post
Some people are asking for character sheet errata for season 2. There are definitely some small errors here and there, but nothing that will really effect the game that much. There is one thing that I wanted to clear up however.

  • Shikirr, the Thri-Kreen Battlemind, has a ranged basic attack entry referring to mind thrust. This is an error left over from templating from a psionic character card. The ranged attack entry referring to mind thrust should be ignored.


While you may see some discrepancies in the character cards, I suggest that you change only the bit above as most of the other corrections are inconsequential and will not affect game play that much, but correcting them with players may slow the game down and cause unneeded confusion.

Trevor Kidd Community Manager

Cool, thanks Trevor. There are some small niche communities that are making the corrections but I agree that it could cause unneeded confusion if done at the table.
Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

Follow me on Twitter!
I disagree that these changes are inconsequential. This event targets new players, and those players will lose interest quickly if they see each encounter as insurmountable.  I haven't playtested the adventure, but I'm afraid that as DM, I'm going to be fighting to keep characters alive because of some of the horribly low defenses that are among the errors.  While Matt is correct that making changes at the table would be unworkable, either making changes to the PDF ahead of time *or* allowing us license to make the changes to the image files would resolve all problems. Unfortunately, neither of these rather simple options is available, so my job in keeping characters alive, and thus fostering a positive experience for the target audience, is made much more difficult.  

WotC should rethink this position.
Rob Bodine @gsllc Convention Coordinator, synDCon @synDCon http://synDCon.net/ 4th Edition Dungeon Crawls: http://me.lt/2y0xi
Cryonax, I think you are overstating the "problems".  Changes to the rules or powers have happened in the past: even in season 1 of Encounters I had a tiefling player and a pacifist cleric that both had powers changed due to a rules update.  Neither one minded one bit.  Frankly, the only actual problem on the cards is the Mind Thrust that doesn't exist.  Everything else is a nice fix to know about, but not worth the hassle.
What makes me sad - no more compiled magazines: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/27580349/Dungeon_and_Dragon_Magazine_PDFs&post_num=24#495423645
@Atras: On the other hand, you're arguably overstating the "hassle."  I know someone who could change the images in a heartbeat without even having access to the original files.  I advised him not to do that.  Why can't WotC just make a couple of changes and redistribute?  And if it is that big a hassle, why can't they give the community permission to do it?
Rob Bodine @gsllc Convention Coordinator, synDCon @synDCon http://synDCon.net/ 4th Edition Dungeon Crawls: http://me.lt/2y0xi
If you want to change it for your store/group you have that permission, I'm sure.

It only becomes a grey area if you try to redistribute the files.

By all means, if you feel its an issue - fix what you think is broken.   
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

@Wolfstar76: You are incorrect. You are expressly forbidden from scanning Encounters materials to PDFs. Question asked of WotC legal and answered.
Rob Bodine @gsllc Convention Coordinator, synDCon @synDCon http://synDCon.net/ 4th Edition Dungeon Crawls: http://me.lt/2y0xi
@Wolfstar76: You are incorrect. You are expressly forbidden from scanning Encounters materials to PDFs. Question asked of WotC legal and answered.



Who needs to make PDFs?

Pen and paper works just fine.

[EDIT]
For that matter, PDFs of the characters are available here: www.wizards.com/dnd/Event.aspx?x=dnd/4ne...
 
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

Oh, that's true. You don't need to use WotC's character sheets with art, etc., but that would result in a much nicer first impression.  If you want to recreate the characters in Character Builder (to the extent possible) or just by word processor, that's fine, but it would also diminish the presentation. Again, new players are the target market.

Incidentally, I don't think this is *that* big a deal myself. I'm actually looking to help WotC in this regard, but they don't seem to want it.

EDIT: Pointing to PDFs without errata misses my point entirely.
Rob Bodine @gsllc Convention Coordinator, synDCon @synDCon http://synDCon.net/ 4th Edition Dungeon Crawls: http://me.lt/2y0xi
Cryonax is a very good friend of mine and he is sincere and honest in his attempt to help improve the process. If he were trolling, I would grab him by his big head and give him a noogy.
Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

Follow me on Twitter!
Thanks Matt. You're a dork, but I love ya!

As Matt will tell you, I'm a local leader in planning weekly game days and an annual convention for which LFR is currently our bread and butter.  I now work RPGA HQ at GenCon (come and say hi).  My beating players over the heads with copyright law is not just designed to protect them, but also to protect WotC's copyrights because I want D&D to remain a worthwhile venture for WotC.  (EDIT: I do not represent WotC. My only relationship with them is as a consumer and as a volunteer at GenCon.)  My intent wasn't to troll but rather to suggest an alternative policy that, in my humble opinion, would better advance WotC's goals of creating an enjoyable and visually stunning first impression of the game.  Everything I write is intended to help, whether it does or not.  If the back and forth, or my wording, made me seem like a troll, I apologize.
(But I stand by everything I said.)  
Rob Bodine @gsllc Convention Coordinator, synDCon @synDCon http://synDCon.net/ 4th Edition Dungeon Crawls: http://me.lt/2y0xi
I never took his complaints as trolling, I just feel that he is the latest voice overstating a small problem.  To fix the character sheets (Removing the basic ranged attack, adding in a miss line for Barcan's Daily, using updated rules for changed powers) would mean a fairly big hassle, in the grand scheme of things.

WotC had these cards ready a while ago, I would guess well before the May errata was decided on. To update the actual physical cards and replace them would be impossible, but I would not be surprised to see some people call for that kind of "fix".  If they put out official PDFs that have the real errors fixed, then it is a medium sized hassle for hundreds of DMs and/or stores around the world if we want to make sure that our players have the most correct character sheets.  Add in the fact that there could be problems if someone took an updated PDF from one store and brought it to a store that was not using the corrected PDF.  If they use out-of-date rules, then maybe the Tiefling racial power is not as good, but it will be as good as what is found in the book.  The only real "huh?" of all of the minor problems on the cards is the mistake stating that the Battlemind has a Psion power.  I bet every DM will have to point out that that was a error on the card, but almost no one will ask about Throw and Stab's meaning.  If you have a player savvy enough to be up to date on the errata, let them use it!

Why can't they let us update the cards... I guess that is a good question.  Not being a lawyer, I get a little cross-eyed at the legalese companies are subjected to/subject their customers to.  I do understand the annoyance of being expressly told "No, you can't fix our mistakes by scanning and fixing".   You could try grabbing some different colored sticky-backed labels, and applying fixes to the cards yourself, that would keep the presentation that is key for new players, and fix things that old players could object to, and it would be legal.  That still leaves you with the frustration of having to do anything in the first place, but for the limited time remaining, it might be your best option.
What makes me sad - no more compiled magazines: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/27580349/Dungeon_and_Dragon_Magazine_PDFs&post_num=24#495423645
If you really feel there is some issue with the cards get a $1 sharpie and edit them before the game.  The changes are almost all numeric and very minor.  Its an easy fix.
Cryonax is a very good friend of mine and he is sincere and honest in his attempt to help improve the process. If he were trolling, I would grab him by his big head and give him a noogy.


this.  Liquid paper and a pen made the changes just fine.

Look, I'm wanting to move people into LFR when the season's over.  Gotta get them used to errata.
Rule Zero: Save vs. Hivemind http://rulezeroblog.wordpress.com
Cryonax and others definitely all have valid points, and if people want to make up sheets or use sharpies to add errata, then they definitely should! I was only expressing that new players already have a lot to deal with, and we specifically make these character cards with that in mind. Adding edits to the card or giving them a full blown character sheet with updated info may overwhelm some of those new players. However, if you feel it's necessary for your games, go for it!

We're not able to print up new corrected cards and get them out in a timely manner, especially with a program that we're providing for free. I'm also no lawyer, but I'm guessing that officially stating that people can alter the PDFs of the character cards could have some crazy and unwanted results.

If there is something that makes a character unplayable (read unfun, significantly confusing, or too difficult to play effectively) we'll do everything we can to make sure people know about it. From what we've seen, the only thing that warrants attention so far is the unintended mind thrust entry on Shikirr's card. But again, if you feel that other corrections need to be made in order to have a fun and successful game, please make those changes - I'm only asking that if you're dealing with new players, keep that in mind when updating the cards.

Trevor Kidd Community Manager

Yeah, I will note the lack of Mind Thrust to Shikarr.

On the Mind Thrust issue, I believe Jarvix should do 2d10+5 damage with Augment 2. Is that correct? I will Probably give him that too. Not near as concerned with the rest.
Thanks for the clairification Trevor.

I think that for my 5pm session Im going to go with the characters as recomended since I have no idea of the skill level of that group.

  The 7pm session which is a full group of very experienced players (some much more so than I) Im going to use the current rules updates for Infernal Wrath and Stab and throw and

 Make all of Casti's Carkell attacks brutal 2

 Jarvix's Mind thrust Aug 2 2d10+5

 Barcan's staff dam 1d8+2 (as if he will use it but perhaps)

 Barcan's Cosmos call do 1/2 damage on a miss

 Barcan's blazing starfall  do 1d4+7 damage

For both sessions Im going to add 20 gp worht of mystical salves and 20 gp worth of rare herbs to Jarvix's gear. Im contemplating substituting more mystical salves  for gold when treasure is awarded in the future encounters.
I'm second from the left in the picture.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

On the Mind Thrust issue, I believe Jarvix should do 2d10+5 damage with Augment 2. Is that correct?


Yes.


Barcan's blazing starfall  do 1d4+7 damage


It should be radiant damage. (The amount of damage is correct on the card.)
I'd stick to the list that Kedrith posted, with one addition: Barcan has the Soul of the Cosmic Cycle benefit of ignoring resistance up to his own value.

The others are off-by-some number issues, which may or may not be errors (as opposed to deliberate tweaks or unknown modifiers), with the exception of Phye being able to augment her bonus at-will, which I'm inclined to think was done for the sake of simplicity.

I think WotC hates rangers.  Castri is one of the worst creations yet.  I think he should have Str. 16, Con. 13, Dex. 18, Int. 10, Wis. 13, Cha. 8.  He should have Swift footwork as his feat if not toughness or durability.  His powers should be Fading Strike, Shield of Blades, Hunter's Pounce, and Scything Blow.  This build would give him an AC of 18 or 20, 25 Hp., and 7 healing surges.  This is still pretty weak as far as players go but it would be more survivable than the way they made him. 

All the characters should have had higher CON and endurance, if only by the unforgiving force of selective breeding due to the harsh world of Athas. How did such frail parents end up giving birth to such frail children?

Edit: planet's name 
All the characters should have had higher CON and endurance, if only by the unforgiving force of selective breeding due to the harsh world of Arathis. How did such frail parents end up giving birth to such frail children?



We figured there are folk who travel a lot and would need good Con and Endurance. Then there are city folk who probably live their whole lives in the city and probably have no need for it as they never venture outside the walls.
All the characters should have had higher CON and endurance, if only by the unforgiving force of selective breeding due to the harsh world of Arathis. How did such frail parents end up giving birth to such frail children?



We figured there are folk who travel a lot and would need good Con and Endurance. Then there are city folk who probably live their whole lives in the city and probably have no need for it as they never venture outside the walls.



I'm not as familiar with the setting (as you can tell from misspelling the name of the world), but I seem to recall that cities are frequently attacked, razed, and rebuilt. Wouldn't that necessitate everyone knowing at least a little bit about survival and being hardier than people from other more forgiving worlds?
... making changes to the PDF ahead of time *or* allowing us license to make the changes to the image files would resolve all problems. Unfortunately, neither of these rather simple options is available, so my job in keeping characters alive, and thus fostering a positive experience for the target audience, is made much more difficult.  

WotC should rethink this position.


How hard would it be to let Organizers have access to (maybe even purchase) an unlocked/editable PDF through our WPN representatives?
This would afford the people at individual stores the chance to make the adjustments where they felt it necessary; in situations like this. 
Along with the access through our WPN representative, we could be required to sign a legal contract stating the PDFs were still the property of WotC & we are not permitted to redistribute the editable versions of the PDFs w/o legal actions which would include (but not be limited to) expulsion from our status as an Organizer.

*** I fully agree with Cryonax on his stance in this, and even considered (but did not follow through with) canceling DDEs2 at our location due to the fact there was so little official response to the concerns.
Links that I find very useful, will be added here. http://community.wizards.com/vinciente/blog/2010/02/24/useful_damp;d_pageslinks
I'm not as familiar with the setting (as you can tell from misspelling the name of the world), but I seem to recall that cities are frequently attacked, razed, and rebuilt. Wouldn't that necessitate everyone knowing at least a little bit about survival and being hardier than people from other more forgiving worlds?



Oh no. The real cities, the major City-States of the region are near-permanant fixtures in the world, and have all been around for... i don't remember, hundreds of years? More? Nothing can really threaten them, as their lords are demigod level of power and can probably still take armies themselves in 4E.

Some of the larger towns are pretty permenant as well, it is only the smaller towns that are constantly threatened and struggle for survival.
Interesting. I just noticed the DDXP thri-kreen's racial claw power is a minor action, while the Encounters one is a standard.

I wonder which one is right.

I just looked this up as I was thinking it maybe should be a minor to be on par with dragonborn dragon breath.
Interesting. I just noticed the DDXP thri-kreen's racial claw power is a minor action, while the Encounters one is a standard.

I wonder which one is right.

I just looked this up as I was thinking it maybe should be a minor to be on par with dragonborn dragon breath.


I am going to guess that the newer standard action is the result of an errata to balance them with the feel that Dark Sun is intended to have for the players. The more attacks a player can make in a turn the less dangerous their situation feels, and detracts from the intended feel of Dark Sun.

But that's just my guess on the issue.
Links that I find very useful, will be added here. http://community.wizards.com/vinciente/blog/2010/02/24/useful_damp;d_pageslinks
For what it's worth, our FLGS actually gave out character sheets so players could have a copy of their characters to take home with them while the dry erase sheets stay at the store.

About.me

Drive like you love your children

Through faith you have been saved by grace and not by works. -Ep 2:8-9

Grammar Made Easy – now there's no excuse for sounding like an idiot online.
Games From the Mind of fewilcox – my blog about writing; games, including, character sheets and other roleplaying accessories; and game design.

 Thats what was done at my FLGS too in fact the organiser had the photo copies at the final night of season one for potential returners to take with them then to look at in advance.

For what it's worth, our FLGS actually gave out character sheets so players could have a copy of their characters to take home with them while the dry erase sheets stay at the store.




I'm second from the left in the picture.


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

After Session 1, our DM chose to rebuild all the pregens at home and give them out on character sheets, due to errors and being (in our opinion) poorly built in general. Obviously there's only so many changes that can be made due to the books simply not being out yet, but we can still improve things.
I am reposting this from the Errata thread:

Ok, here are the six pregens with errata added directly to the files via photoshop. I tried to make these as clean as possible.

LINK: DDEDark_SunCharacters_Updated.pdf

Notes on what I have done:

I am using the collected errata found here:
LINK: PC_Errata_for_Dark_Sun_Encounters
This is in turn collected from this thread from this forum:
community.wizards.com/dungeonsanddragons...

Errata i did not use or choices made:

Phye:
One of her At-Wills (Human Bonus At-Will) can only be used un-augmented.
I chose Psionic Shield to be her human bonus At-Will. My reasons were simple, it was that or Focusing Strike becuase they were on either end of the three. I felt that Psionic Shield was the least useful of the augmented versions.

Shikirr:
Ability scores for the Quick Battlemind build should be Wis 13, Cha 14. Resulting changes are denoted with an asterisk (*). * Will: 14 * Intimidate: +7 * Speed of Thought: 5 squares.
This causes major restructuring to the character sheet beyond the listed changes. Not worth the time and effort for an extra 2 squares on Speed of Thought or increased Intimidate.

Yuka:
Should have only 3 trained skills.
Muls are half dwarf/half human. Its is possible that they get a bouns skill as a racial trait. We won't know until a preview article in Dragon or when the book releases in August. In any case, Streetwise out in the middle of the desert shouldn't be a big deal anyway.

Each PC pregen has been tagged with ERRATTED by the character name to distinguish them from the unerratted sheets supplied by WotC.

I plan to work on leveled up versions of these for Chapters 2 and 3.

I hope this helps folks that needed the PCs updated.

Bryan Blumklotz
GotG Organizer
...



FYI, this was split from the other thread.  Because OFFICIALLY the only thing that should be erratad is removing the ranged attack on shikirr.
On Essentials: Everyone deserves to play a class they enjoy. Hex Grid UserAndroid UserD&DMapTools
Dungeons & Dragons Compendium
Our House Rules
Index of 4e Errata

I think WotC hates rangers.  Castri is one of the worst creations yet.  I think he should have Str. 16, Con. 13, Dex. 18, Int. 10, Wis. 13, Cha. 8.  He should have Swift footwork as his feat if not toughness or durability.  His powers should be Fading Strike, Shield of Blades, Hunter's Pounce, and Scything Blow.  This build would give him an AC of 18 or 20, 25 Hp., and 7 healing surges.  This is still pretty weak as far as players go but it would be more survivable than the way they made him. 




i agree, i wish i had payed more attention to it, although i quickly saw the low amount of healing surges and hitpoints compared to teh other two melee fighting chacs. i just wonder what i can next, right now the fun is sort of gone with the state my chac is in now, i complained about it somewhere else. Right now i am between quitting before attending the next encounter, just appear and see where it takes me (being very careful) or talk with me DM about it and ask if he is still playable and foremost fun to play! If the group i am in indeed has 4 more combat encounters the changes i will survive are very slim unless i decided to stealth away and keep very, very still...the ranger seems to be the weakest of all chacs, by far...a mistake or???
i agree, i wish i had payed more attention to it, although i quickly saw the low amount of healing surges and hitpoints compared to teh other two melee fighting chacs. i just wonder what i can next, right now the fun is sort of gone with the state my chac is in now, i complained about it somewhere else. Right now i am between quitting before attending the next encounter, just appear and see where it takes me (being very careful) or talk with me DM about it and ask if he is still playable and foremost fun to play! If the group i am in indeed has 4 more combat encounters the changes i will survive are very slim unless i decided to stealth away and keep very, very still...the ranger seems to be the weakest of all chacs, by far...a mistake or???



Nah, Castri is terrible. I don't know about WotC hating rangers, but this is a bad build. I couldn't tell if you were in a 6 PC group or not, if not, ask to trade him for another character. If not... not a lot that can be done, unless your GM lets you double up on one of the other premades... I wasn't sure if this was "legal" or not according to the Encounters "rules".
We are with 6 already, but i contacted my DM about it as i started to get less and less excited about the upcoming encounter. He had already seen the same problem, not just for me, and he promise to do something about it. Also he is intrested about possible errata changes, such as that i miss a trained skill as ranger.

Still good to see i am not the only one, it makes the pain somewhat less.
I just corrected all the characters... Templated from the DnDXP perveiw sheets...


All the characters have mechanical errors...

Jarvix has the Old Infernal Wrath and does not have a +10 Perception, Castri has the old Throw and Stab, Phye does not get three Augmentable At-Will, the level 3 additions DO NOT include the level 2 additions...

All the corrections I made were from the Updates and correcting math errors...


They also have a great number of design flaws... A Quick Battlemind with the ability scores of a Resiliant... A Brawler Fighter without Combat Superiority (and the Wis to use it)...
I just corrected all the characters... Templated from the DnDXP perveiw sheets...


All the characters have mechanical errors...

Jarvix has the Old Infernal Wrath and does not have a +10 Perception, Castri has the old Throw and Stab, Phye does not get three Augmentable At-Will, the level 3 additions DO NOT include the level 2 additions...

All the corrections I made were from the Updates and correcting math errors...


They also have a great number of design flaws... A Quick Battlemind with the ability scores of a Resiliant... A Brawler Fighter without Combat Superiority (and the Wis to use it)...



[sblock Rant regarding Correctors]
Many of these are not even errors.. or worth the effort of changing.  Infernal Wrath/Throw and Stab were errata'd after these sheets were printed.  The only actual error you have found is that Jarvix's perception is incorrect.

As to design flaws..  Quick Battlemind with no powers that actually use its charisma (other than moving at the beginning of the encounter... how useful is that usually going to be?), might as well have a higher wisdom.  You'll survive longer in the desert that is Athas on nature, and perception, than you will on how well you can use your diplomacy and bluff on creatures only interested in eating you.  A brawler fighter, without Combat Superiority OBVIOUSLY does not need the Wisdom to use it...  These are not errors of any kind on the sheet, they're just not how YOU would build them...  That's why they are pre-generated characters: Because YOU did not build them.

Get off your optimizations, and ideal feats, and just pick up the character and play it.  Shikirr to me doesn't look like he's going to mind that there's other Quick Battleminds out there who are prettier than he is, and I doubt the other members of his group wishes he was better at talking fancy, than he is at spotting Ravenous, Poisonous Athas creatures.  There's really nothing wrong with any of the characters, they're just not the optimal builds.  They're also built only to live to level 3, and then they will be done and gone.  So they don't need to plot a long term build, they just need what they need to get through the 15 encounters of this season.
[/sblock] 
On Essentials: Everyone deserves to play a class they enjoy. Hex Grid UserAndroid UserD&DMapTools
Dungeons & Dragons Compendium
Our House Rules
Index of 4e Errata

[sblock Rant regarding Correctors]
Many of these are not even errors.. or worth the effort of changing.  Infernal Wrath/Throw and Stab were errata'd after these sheets were printed.  The only actual error you have found is that Jarvix's perception is incorrect.

As to design flaws..  Quick Battlemind with no powers that actually use its charisma (other than moving at the beginning of the encounter... how useful is that usually going to be?), might as well have a higher wisdom.  You'll survive longer in the desert that is Athas on nature, and perception, than you will on how well you can use your diplomacy and bluff on creatures only interested in eating you.  A brawler fighter, without Combat Superiority OBVIOUSLY does not need the Wisdom to use it...  These are not errors of any kind on the sheet, they're just not how YOU would build them...  That's why they are pre-generated characters: Because YOU did not build them.

Get off your optimizations, and ideal feats, and just pick up the character and play it.  Shikirr to me doesn't look like he's going to mind that there's other Quick Battleminds out there who are prettier than he is, and I doubt the other members of his group wishes he was better at talking fancy, than he is at spotting Ravenous, Poisonous Athas creatures.  There's really nothing wrong with any of the characters, they're just not the optimal builds.  They're also built only to live to level 3, and then they will be done and gone.  So they don't need to plot a long term build, they just need what they need to get through the 15 encounters of this season.
[/sblock] 




What he said.

 

If they are going to give him the Wisdom they should atleast give him the At-Will to use it...


I don't see the reason to hamstring most of the characters when they are trying to entice new players...

If they go home thinking that the characters are worthless, there are not very likely to want to play...

They don't need to be optimized... very few of my characters are, but they do play to thier advantages...


A high Wis Battlemind without the 'gain resist equal to Wis mod' At-Will is worthless... NO player would do that, it hamstrings the character, especially since he is getting nothing but skill bonuses with the high Wis.

Um,

I didn't rebuild the PCs. I made only corrections that were either in the May update, were confirmed errors in the skills, and parts of the powers left off (like damage for an augment 2).

I did it as a service to those folks that wanted them instead of handing out the collected errata and taping them to the PCs.

If you don't want to use them, then don't download them. If someone shows up at the store with mine, they are clearly marked "Erratted" by the name of the PC and you can kindly ask them to put them away and hand out the glossy origionals that were given out with the kit.

Its an option, one that my location will be using, not a requirement. Obviously you do not want them, bully for you.

Bryan Blumklotz
GotG Organizer

A high Wis Battlemind without the 'gain resist equal to Wis mod' At-Will is worthless... 





That word, "worthless" . . . I don't think it means what you think it means.