Creature Competition: Last Match!

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Hi folks,

 We're down to the last match in the Creature Competition. Will it be Tiamat or the Raven Queen? Voting now open!
As an aside... ugh.  So, the creature that will be featured is going to be either the goddess driving the H-P-E series we started 4e with, or the goddess driving the Scales of War adventure series we just ended?  I know we're heading into summer reruns, but come on!
Don't look at me! I voted for Kodos Halaster.

But then he got beaten by The Simbul.
Well, as I said in the previous thread... I saw this one coming a mile away (as did most people, I suspect.) I would've loved to see people's reactions if either one had lost in the previous round, but alas, it was not to be.

I've already cast my vote for this round, though at this point I don't terribly care one way or the other. I'm not especially fond of Tiamat or the Raven Queen, so my vote was more for the sake of participation than any real desire to see the one for whom I voted win. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing the results, if only to see whether fortune favors the old blood or the new blood.
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147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
How many of us actually played through Scakes of War though? :P

P.S. I voted for Tiamat.
Yawn...

Chris Perkins should just pick whichever monster he wants to, as long as it isn't one of these two. 
Maybe we can just get a bit of slash-fic with these two.

Set the scene...

Raven Queen has just slain Nerull and attained the mantle of godhood.  Fearful of retribution by other gods, and terribly wounded from the battle, she flees Nerull's dominion of Pluton seeking succor.

Meanwhile, in the midst of the Dawn War, the hermaphroditic god Io is divided into its male (Bahamut) and female (Tiamat) halves.  Reveling in her newfound womanhood, and horribly wounded from the battle against the Primordial, Tiamat flees her male half, seeking to explore herself and her new existence.

In a dark corner of the Astral Sea, the two newly formed goddesses meet...
Tiamat


In a dark corner of the Astral Sea, the two newly formed goddesses meet...




God, why?
Because then they'd both forfeit the tourney and we'd get someone else?
Well that does it, all whom I cheered along are now eliminated. I would cheerfully support Wrecan's ploy at this point to get us anyone other than Raven Queen, or Tiamat.
Because then they'd both forfeit the tourney and we'd get someone else?



I'm not saying they're right, but it's what "the people" want!  Who are we to begrudge them?  I'll tell you who we are!  We are the vocal minority!!!!
Seriously, how could people NOT vote for the god of Hell, one of the two most interesting evil gods of 4E and the only one actually in this campaign? I still say Asmodeus won, since he'd probably have rigged the thing from the start if it were real.

The original core books said that this was our game too. It doesn't feel like that anymore.

Vomit. It comes down to the two most over-exposed beings in 4E. Pardon me while I utterly fail to care.

It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
I can't say too much, since this was what I voted for last week (no way was I gonna vote for anything FR related).  I'll vote for the RQ ... Tiamat's had plenty of screen time over the years.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Meh....the Lady of Pain lost, so it's obviously a rigged contest. Wink

Meh....the Lady of Pain lost, so it's obviously a rigged contest. Wink


The Lady of Pain won, it's just that retarded dice roll thing that made Lolth win that matchup.



It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
Nah, the Lady of Lame lost like she should have.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Obviously this goes by player voting, but still, how does Tharizdun manage to lose (especially to asmodeus)?  A god so powerful it took the combined efforts of all of the other gods to confine him and is capable of destroying the entire uni/multiverse? 

Nah, the Lady of Lame lost like she should have.


You spelled Awesome wrong. 


And yes, the vote went in favor of the LoP, but the ridiculous dice roll thing gave it to Lolth. So this doesn't even get to claim to be popular opinion, because creatures have lost that otherwise would not have.



It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
Worst.  Creature Competition.  Ever.

Hmm, I think I will run HPE and Scales of War combined.

Obviously this goes by player voting, but still, how does Tharizdun manage to lose (especially to asmodeus)?  A god so powerful it took the combined efforts of all of the other gods to confine him and is capable of destroying the entire uni/multiverse? 


It's a Xanatos Gambit (warning, TVTropes link!). He'll win in the end no matter what. Wink

It's a Xanatos Gambit (warning, TVTropes link!). He'll win in the end no matter what. 

+1

PS - I voted RQ. Out with the old, in with the new.

I stopped caring after the Eberronites lost.
Shaman: "Why doesn't the squirrel shoot the wizard?" DM: "Because the last squirrel who tried to shoot the wizard missed, then was pulled out of his tree and incinerated." Wizard: "He has a point."
You know, next Creature Competition, couldn't we just have a list of monsters or people NO ONE has heard of, minus the dragon, and see who wins? That way we could have, oh, I don't know, Something besides the obvious popular thing winning?

I mean, really. It just is *boring* after ... I think this is the 5th? Creature Competition. It has gotten so that these just don't matter anymore. Choose the dragon of the year, Celebrate that, and lets move on already.
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+1 to Kensan
Chris Perkins should just pick whichever monster he wants to, as long as it isn't one of these two. 

Echoed. Seconded. Dittoed. Whatever.

I don't want another Tiamat or Raven Queen focused adventure.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
And just for the record... since we're at that point anyway... My Top Two was Baba-Yaga's Hut vs. Lady of Pain. Of which I voted Lady of Pain, but I wouldn't have been upset if Baba-Yaga's Hut had won.
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My final was Lady of Pain vs. Raven Queen, so I'm all with the Queen now!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/23.jpg)

Ugh, this is horrible, complete waste of time.

Ugh, this is horrible, complete waste of time.



Well... yep. That's what it is designed to be, anyway. :D Haven't you ever done a Meme?
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Yawn...

Chris Perkins should just pick whichever monster he wants to, as long as it isn't one of these two.



I had my money on the Lady of Pain, so what do I know? Undecided

Chris Perkins
D&D Senior Producer, RPG R&D
Wizards of the Coast LLC

Villains get popular through classic adventures. Most people who started gaming with 3E and 4E never got involved that much with the Lady of Pain, Vecna or Halaster. If you want to use a creature not yet used, it should not have been included in the vote. Like most, I find these two options rather boring although predictable as well. My vote goes for the RQ though, because Tiamat is overused me as well since the last major 3E adventure (Red Hand of Doom) and the big 4E storyline use her, and to be honest, because I dislike using dragons in 4E.

Yawn...

Chris Perkins should just pick whichever monster he wants to, as long as it isn't one of these two.



I had my money on the Lady of Pain, so what do I know?

Chris Perkins
D&D Senior Producer, RPG R&D
Wizards of the Coast LLC



She was my favorite as well.

Come, come to the Shadow side of the Power Source! Mwha-ha-aha-aha-ha!
I was personally voting for Asmodeus....


And Asmodeus defeated by Tiamat?  WTF Over!?!

Tiamat can bite me...  No not with that head, the other head...  No the other other head
I was personally voting for Asmodeus....


And Asmodeus defeated by Tiamat?  WTF Over!?!

Tiamat can bite me...  No not with that head, the other head...  No the other other head


Well, if it's an in-universe popularity contest, it becomes a tad more understandable. After all, who would you prefer? A god who preaches greed, miserly hoarding of wealth, and vengeance? Or a god who promises you an eternity of torture or transformation into a universal pariah to be forever embroiled in deadly politics?

I picked Asmodeus to win the whole thing on raw power and cunning, but whatever. 

The original core books said that this was our game too. It doesn't feel like that anymore.

My ideal final involved Grazzt and his former lover/enemy.


Is there any way the new adventure could involve both RQ and Tiamat? 


"...in an effort to defeat Bahamut once and for all, Tiamat invades the realm of the Raven Queen after hearing a rumor that part of Io's divine power still exists somewhere in the land of the dead.  Her goal is to claim this lost divine essense and gain enough strenght to defeat Bahamut in a final draconic showdown.  This cascades into a 'world war' type scenario as divine alliances and age old fueds come into play; many of the gods rush the the dark battleground of the Shadowfell.  Recently it has been discovered that reinforcements for the battle cannot travel to the Shadowfell, nor can the gods or troops already there return.  

Oddly, two are not drawn into the battle: Vecna and Asmodeus.  Was the secret of Io's essense something which was leaked to Tiamat by the undead god of secrets for some larger goal?  Is Asmodeus engineering a scheme that only a mind as crafty and diabolical as his could craft?  Will the absense of many of the gods invite Primordials to make a move?"
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My ideal final involved Grazzt and his former lover/enemy.


Is there any way the new adventure could involve both RQ and Tiamat? 


"...in an effort to defeat Bahamut once and for all, Tiamat invades the realm of the Raven Queen after hearing a rumor that part of Io's divine power still exists somewhere in the land of the dead.  Her goal is to claim this lost divine essense and gain enough strenght to defeat Bahamut in a final draconic showdown.  This cascades into a 'world war' type scenario as divine alliances and age old fueds come into play; many of the gods rush the the dark battleground of the Shadowfell.  Recently it has been discovered that reinforcements for the battle cannot travel to the Shadowfell, nor can the gods or troops already there return.  

Oddly, two are not drawn into the battle: Vecna and Asmodeus.  Was the secret of Io's essense something which was leaked to Tiamat by the undead god of secrets for some larger goal?  Is Asmodeus engineering a scheme that only a mind as crafty and diabolical as his could craft?  Will the absense of many of the gods invite Primordials to make a move?"


That seems pretty epic Tier, I doubt we'll see an Encounters season dealing with Epic Tier, certainly not by the 3rd season. I kinda had my doubts we'd be able to see Sigil at heroic tier either, but PCs could possibly survive Sigil if they kept their heads down.

Big surprise, the Raven Queen won!


www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/...


Now it's Meepo vs. Splug.

:sigh:
At least it wasn't Tiamat.
:sigh:
At least it wasn't Tiamat.



S'cause everyone <3s the Raven Queen.

I wonder which of the final 4 will be picked for Season 3.  I'm hoping it's Tiamat. :D