DPR King Candidates 2.0

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1) using Overwhelming Strike on a charge without Power of Skill-- noteworthy since no Deity has both Skill and Storm domains (though this can be houseruled/homebrewed)

His math doesn't include the +1 to hit from Charging, so I don't think he is.  Just shifting in and hitting with Overwhelming strike, and using that to shift out.




Gotcha.

Did I miss something regarding the keyword issue, as well? Not asking to be snarky-- asking so that I may be corrected if I did so.
Did I miss something regarding the keyword issue, as well? Not asking to be snarky-- asking so that I may be corrected if I did so.

Nope.  It looks like the March Errata really hurts him.  (Prior to that, Frost Weapons added the keyword, so it could be argued to work.  Now that it replaces, and Power of Storm explicitly replaces... hard to argue)
Borg-- You are correct. The reason I pointed out that he wasn't using Power of Skill is because you can't use Overwhelming Strike as an MBA without it. IE, no Overwhelming Strike on a charge, or with Polearm Momentum.

But he does get to use it on Polearm Momentum, via HBO.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Did I miss something regarding the keyword issue, as well? Not asking to be snarky-- asking so that I may be corrected if I did so.

Nope.  It looks like the March Errata really hurts him.  (Prior to that, Frost Weapons added the keyword, so it could be argued to work.  Now that it replaces, and Power of Storm explicitly replaces... hard to argue)
Borg-- You are correct. The reason I pointed out that he wasn't using Power of Skill is because you can't use Overwhelming Strike as an MBA without it. IE, no Overwhelming Strike on a charge, or with Polearm Momentum.

But he does get to use it on Polearm Momentum, via HBO.




So, ultimately, the DPR doesn't suffer. Swap out Power of Storm for Power of Strength, replace Echoes of Thunder with Barreling Charge, and you're barely down.
Would you please explain how you get the increased damage /79.92 and under which conditions this is most likely to happen?


Polearm Gamble

Odds are if the monster doesn't come after him, it will move "away" from him, which increases the DPR over what he calculated by 3.36, but that's somewhat debatable.


I assume that a monster either wants to attack me and gets polearm gamble or an ally and gets the pursuit damage.

I'm wondering how he ends up adjacent (and thus gets his oath) when he's using a polearm.


With a reach weapon you can also attack adjacent enemies.

using Overwhelming Strike on a charge without Power of Skill-- noteworthy since no Deity has both Skill and Storm domains (though this can be houseruled/homebrewed)


Cannot charge because doesn't have Power of Skill. I decided for a damage bonus domain feat.

using a Frost Glaive (which replaces existing keywords with the Cold keyword when you use the power) in conjunction with Power of Storm (which replaces existing keywords with the Thunder keyword when you use it to modify Overwhelming Strike)


Okay, I will correct this and lose the echo of thunder bonus.

Borg-- You are correct. The reason I pointed out that he wasn't using Power of Skill is because you can't use Overwhelming Strike as an MBA without it. IE, no Overwhelming Strike on a charge, or with Polearm Momentum.


Don't want to knock the enemy prone, because I want the enemy to move away or to enter a square adjacent to me.

So, ultimately, the DPR doesn't suffer. Swap out Power of Storm for Power of Strength, replace Echoes of Thunder with Barreling Charge, and you're barely down.


I replaced Power of the Storm with Power of Strength and  Echoes of Thunder with Weapon Focus, but I don't need Barreling Charge, because I cannot use Overwhelming Strike as a MBA.

...and the name of the build will lose its intent. Cry
With a reach weapon you can also attack adjacent enemies.

Yeah, that's when I thought you were trying to charge in.

Don't want to knock the enemy prone, because I want the enemy to move away or to enter a square adjacent to me.

Overwhelming Strike doesn't knock prone, it slides you one and slides the target one.  That only knocks prone if you're using specific gear.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

I related to your idea to use Polearm Momentum...

This would be possible with Risky Shift and Rushing Cleats but the target would get problems to move away or move adjacent. The target should be spoilt for choice.
What do you guys think of making some stereotypical builds at levels {6, 12, 16, 24, 30} for some of the typical classes?  
Some would like to see an already built fighter, or a stereotypical druid or what have you.  I read through some handbooks and wish I could see their advice fleshed out.  Some of them have builds, and most have level 1 versions of most variants.  But what if we were to do post a reply here looking for low hanging fruit of the example builds under each handbook in the collection of char op links?
I just don't see much variety. 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Striker of Pelor (12th, Revision 1.3)

Revisions

1.1 Nice side-effect, thx to the fix SongNSilence made (Pervasive Light), we get a higher DPR 48.89
1.2 Race changed to Longtooth Shifter, added Battle Harness and Blood Fury Handaxe, loosing Human Bonus Feat Hybrid Talent (Armor of Faith), now DPR 50.81
1.3 Race changed back to Human, Human Feat now Primal Sharpshooter, Weapon Focus retrained to Primal Eye, no need for Battle Harness and Blood Fury Handaxe, now 51.71 DPR


Hybrid Human Avenger/Invoker MC Seeker PP Crimson Hunter with Sun Strike DPR 51.71
Attack: Sun Strike vs Oath of Enmity with Distant Vengeance and Frost Quarterstaff:

Math

To Hit: +20 vs Reflex 24 hit 88% crit 9.7%
6 (Wisdom)
6 (1/2 level)
3 (Enhancement) 
1 (Focused Expertise)
1 (Item, Eagle Eye Goggles)
1 (Accurate Arrow)
2 (CA, Wintertouched)

Average Damage Per Hit: 51.5
4.5 (Sun Strike)
6 (Wisdom)
3 (Enhancement)
4 (Primal Eye)
2 (Item, Bracers of the Perfect Shot, Heroic)
5 (Lasting Frost Vulnerability)
6 (Pelor's Sun Blessing)
5 (Power of the Sun Vulnerability, Paragon)
6 (Pain of Oath)
5 (Pevasive Light)
3 (Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold, Paragon)
2 (Gloves of Ice)

Damage Per Hit on a Crit: 65.5
8 (Sun Strike)
47 (Static Damage)
10.5 (Crit Die for Frost Quarterstaff)

Total Expected Sun Strike DPR: (.88)(51.5) + (.097)(65.5) = 51.71


Build

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Striker of Pelor, level 12
Human, Avenger|Invoker, Crimson Hunter
Hybrid Avenger: Hybrid Avenger Will
Covenant Manifestation: Manifestation of Wrath
Hybrid Invoker: Hybrid Invoker Will
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Staff)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 11, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 20, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 15, Wis 17, Cha 8.


AC: 20 Fort: 19 Reflex: 21 Will: 24
HP: 87 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +16, Heal +16, Perception +16, Insight +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +10, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +6, History +10, Intimidate +5, Religion +10, Stealth +6, Streetwise +5, Thievery +6, Athletics +8

FEATS
Human: Primal Sharpshooter
Level 1: Weapon Focus (Staff) (retrained to Primal Eye at Level 12)
Level 2: Versatile Expertise
Level 4: Power of the Sun
Level 6: Distant Vengeance
Level 8: Wintertouched
Level 10: Alertness (retrained to Pervasive Light at Level 11)
Level 11: Painful Oath
Level 12: Lasting Frost

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Bond of Censure
Hybrid at-will 1: Sun Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Day's First Light
Hybrid daily 1: Angelic Protector
Hybrid utility 2: Refocus Enmity
Hybrid encounter 3: Offering of Justice
Hybrid daily 5: Light of Truth
Hybrid utility 6: Demand Justice
Hybrid encounter 7: Word of Fiery Condemnation
Hybrid daily 9: Summon Blade Angel
Hybrid utility 10: Wings of Vengeance

ITEMS
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3), Bracers of the Perfect Shot (heroic tier), Eagle Eye Goggles (heroic tier), Frost Quarterstaff +3, Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (paragon tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======






Was looking at this build to possibly play something similar in a campaign and had a couple of questions, if someone doesn't mind answering.

First, I was under the impression that you do not get your Oath of Enmity bonus when you're a hybrid avenger unless you are using specifically an avenger power. Thus you would not get the Oath bonus on Sun Strike.

Second, I'm seeing the Frost Weapon +3 and the Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold as both level 13 items. I would need one of those to be level 12 for the items with this build to work, or am I wrong?
Striker of Pelor (12th, Revision 1.3)

Revisions

1.1 Nice side-effect, thx to the fix SongNSilence made (Pervasive Light), we get a higher DPR 48.89
1.2 Race changed to Longtooth Shifter, added Battle Harness and Blood Fury Handaxe, loosing Human Bonus Feat Hybrid Talent (Armor of Faith), now DPR 50.81
1.3 Race changed back to Human, Human Feat now Primal Sharpshooter, Weapon Focus retrained to Primal Eye, no need for Battle Harness and Blood Fury Handaxe, now 51.71 DPR


Hybrid Human Avenger/Invoker MC Seeker PP Crimson Hunter with Sun Strike DPR 51.71
Attack: Sun Strike vs Oath of Enmity with Distant Vengeance and Frost Quarterstaff:

Math

To Hit: +20 vs Reflex 24 hit 88% crit 9.7%
6 (Wisdom)
6 (1/2 level)
3 (Enhancement) 
1 (Focused Expertise)
1 (Item, Eagle Eye Goggles)
1 (Accurate Arrow)
2 (CA, Wintertouched)

Average Damage Per Hit: 51.5
4.5 (Sun Strike)
6 (Wisdom)
3 (Enhancement)
4 (Primal Eye)
2 (Item, Bracers of the Perfect Shot, Heroic)
5 (Lasting Frost Vulnerability)
6 (Pelor's Sun Blessing)
5 (Power of the Sun Vulnerability, Paragon)
6 (Pain of Oath)
5 (Pevasive Light)
3 (Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold, Paragon)
2 (Gloves of Ice)

Damage Per Hit on a Crit: 65.5
8 (Sun Strike)
47 (Static Damage)
10.5 (Crit Die for Frost Quarterstaff)

Total Expected Sun Strike DPR: (.88)(51.5) + (.097)(65.5) = 51.71


Build

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Striker of Pelor, level 12
Human, Avenger|Invoker, Crimson Hunter
Hybrid Avenger: Hybrid Avenger Will
Covenant Manifestation: Manifestation of Wrath
Hybrid Invoker: Hybrid Invoker Will
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Staff)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 11, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 20, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 15, Wis 17, Cha 8.


AC: 20 Fort: 19 Reflex: 21 Will: 24
HP: 87 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +16, Heal +16, Perception +16, Insight +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +10, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +6, History +10, Intimidate +5, Religion +10, Stealth +6, Streetwise +5, Thievery +6, Athletics +8

FEATS
Human: Primal Sharpshooter
Level 1: Weapon Focus (Staff) (retrained to Primal Eye at Level 12)
Level 2: Versatile Expertise
Level 4: Power of the Sun
Level 6: Distant Vengeance
Level 8: Wintertouched
Level 10: Alertness (retrained to Pervasive Light at Level 11)
Level 11: Painful Oath
Level 12: Lasting Frost

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Bond of Censure
Hybrid at-will 1: Sun Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Day's First Light
Hybrid daily 1: Angelic Protector
Hybrid utility 2: Refocus Enmity
Hybrid encounter 3: Offering of Justice
Hybrid daily 5: Light of Truth
Hybrid utility 6: Demand Justice
Hybrid encounter 7: Word of Fiery Condemnation
Hybrid daily 9: Summon Blade Angel
Hybrid utility 10: Wings of Vengeance

ITEMS
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3), Bracers of the Perfect Shot (heroic tier), Eagle Eye Goggles (heroic tier), Frost Quarterstaff +3, Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (paragon tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======






Was looking at this build to possibly play something similar in a campaign and had a couple of questions, if someone doesn't mind answering.

First, I was under the impression that you do not get your Oath of Enmity bonus when you're a hybrid avenger unless you are using specifically an avenger power. Thus you would not get the Oath bonus on Sun Strike.

Second, I'm seeing the Frost Weapon +3 and the Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold as both level 13 items. I would need one of those to be level 12 for the items with this build to work, or am I wrong?


He's using Distant Vengeance to apply OoE to his 'Ranged Basic Attack'.  Your DM may poo-poo this, but it works RAW, and is abused in avenger | seeker builds.
As per items, check with your DM to see if you can liquidate the items you have and repurchase with the total gold.  Not sell at 1/5th, but take the total gold you would be spending if you were to get a level -1, level, and level+1 item and gold of level -1 and take all that gold and start buying items that are most pertinant to the build.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
What do you guys think of making some stereotypical builds at levels {6, 12, 16, 24, 30} for some of the typical classes?  
Some would like to see an already built fighter, or a stereotypical druid or what have you.  I read through some handbooks and wish I could see their advice fleshed out.  Some of them have builds, and most have level 1 versions of most variants.  But what if we were to do post a reply here looking for low hanging fruit of the example builds under each handbook in the collection of char op links?
I just don't see much variety. 




I think that would be very helpful to new people on the boards and 4th Ed in general.
Your level 1 DPR king candidate is flawed.

Reason 1- He is using a one handed thrown, then pulling out a Maul, when Throw and stab says you must be wielding both a thrown and melee weapon at time of use.

Reason 2- Even if the afore mentioned wasnt true, he pulled out the maul as an action in the MIDDLE of an at will. And as a free action at that.

Reason 3- His DPR doesn't include the number of turns he had to run around trying to get bloodied for shifter to be up.

I hope you will change this.
Your #2 level 1 DPR Candidate, The Goliath Assassin|Ranger, is also flawed.

In his calculations for his Quarry and Shroud damage, he put  .95*(1d6+5) for shroud damage  instead of .65*(1d6+5)

this will drop his DPR by roughly 3.

Unless there is some magical +6 to hit I am missing on one of his attacks.
Reason 2- Even if the afore mentioned wasnt true, he pulled out the maul as an action in the MIDDLE of an at will. And as a free action at that.


What does "a free action at that" mean?  There is no limitation ANYWHERE to say that free actions can not occur in the middle of another power.  Indeed, many free actions (Elven Accuracy, for example) occur at a very specific time in the middle of another action, and interrupt the results of that action.

Regarding the other two concerns:
Reason 1.  This is an issue still at debate.  I refer you to the debate in question, it may turn out that there is a workaround he or you have not noticed.
Reason 2.  The DPR King Candidates grants a number of leeways, including setup rounds.  I do agree with you relying on being bloodied, but "number of turns he had to run around" is generally something the thread ignores.


2/3 of your concerns are valid, but the debate is not closed on most.
Please do not attack others without doing your homework.
Your #3 level 1 candidate also is flawed, by matter of also using a racial encounter that requires that he be bloodied. Unless there is a way for him to calculate the DP loss from running around trying to get bloodied, he does not deserve that spot.
Your #3 level 1 candidate also is flawed, by matter of also using a racial encounter that requires that he be bloodied. Unless there is a way for him to calculate the DP loss from running around trying to get bloodied, he does not deserve that spot.

I don't think this thread is what you think this thread is... the DPR numbers assume setup, they are not out-of-the-gate numbers.  It's more of a boast thread than a set of builds that anyone would actually use, and their performance will, like most aspects of war, not survive actual opponents.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

What does "a free action at that" mean?  There is no limitation ANYWHERE to say that free actions can not occur in the middle of another power.  Indeed, many free actions (Elven Accuracy, for example) occur at a very specific time in the middle of another action, and interrupt the results of that action.

Regarding the other two concerns:
Reason 1.  This is an issue still at debate.  I refer you to the debate in question, it may turn out that there is a workaround he or you have not noticed.
Reason 2.  The DPR King Candidates grants a number of leeways, including setup rounds.  I do agree with you relying on being bloodied, but "number of turns he had to run around" is generally something the thread ignores.


2/3 of your concerns are valid, but Bull**** is hardly the right word for ANY of them.
Please do not attack others without doing your homework.



There is no workaround or debate to not wielding a thrown AND melee at the start of the attack. Those are the rules, he is not following them. If it was a Farbond Maul, sure. But it isn't.

I will keep setup turns in mind. I didn't mean to attack specifically, just that I find it supremely unfair to the other candidates. And Actions (Free ones even) always have triggers. unless he took a feat like Quick Draw, which then I would agree it was ok.

I've removed content from this thread because vulgarity is a  Code of Conduct violation (even when masked).  I have removed other content to preserve continiuty on the thread. You can review the Code of Conduct here: wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg...
Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
cyrulaen, Thank you for bringing up these topics.  I encourage detailed analysis of the builds as flaws are always welcome and need to be fixed. 

1. Concerning the throw and stab, it is still an open topic whether or not a trident fulfills the requirements of wielding both a melee and a ranged weapon.  On one hand you are indeed wielding a melee weapon and you are wielding a ranged weapon.  On the other hand the intent is having 2 sub-par weapons, one in each hand.  While the debate is still open I feel that throw and stab, maul aside, is of the same calibur/class as twin strike and that is why the key is there.  I cannot make separate arenas for different levels of cheese acceptance.  I did that in the DPR king candidates 1.0 and it was unwieldy.  This key is my best solution.  If you have another PLEASE tell me.  I'd love to entertain such proposals.

2. Considering the free action, they are indeed allowable at any point anywhere any time.  He's using a free action from his ranger class feature from MP2.  If you think he's using it illegally please explain how.

3. In any collection and competition you are going to have candidates that twist the rules of the competition at the sacrifice of things not measured in the competition.  Durability is hard to quantify and mostly irrelevant to a DPR competition.  This is an exploration into DPR techniques

4. Welcome to Char Op!
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Your #3 level 1 candidate also is flawed, by matter of also using a racial encounter that requires that he be bloodied. Unless there is a way for him to calculate the DP loss from running around trying to get bloodied, he does not deserve that spot.


I agree that at level 1 becomming bloodied w/o magic items(blood fury weapon is a level 3 item) cuts in too much into your durability, but I didn't feel like adding an entry in the key for a longtooth shifter at level 1 which assumes bloodied at the beginning of the encounter.  Past level 1 any longtooth can start the encounter with a blood fury weapon and 'buff' himself for the rest of the encounter at the cost of 2 minor actions.  Readers should, as always, take these builds with a grain of salt, and adjust for their table. 
For a level 1 character I'd easily pick a longtooth charger and know that to live to level 2 I won't be getting 23 DPR.  I will be looking to purchase a blood fury weapon, of course, and thus my choices will diverge from the build outlined there.  I'd love to have a level 2 or level 4 section, but it's just too close to level 1 or level 6 respectivly.  If he had this blood fury weapon I think you wouldn't have a problem with this candidate.  I allowed it knowing that a blood fury weapon was so cheap so as to be assumed in all practical manafestations of the build.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Your #2 level 1 DPR Candidate, The Goliath Assassin|Ranger, is also flawed.

In his calculations for his Quarry and Shroud damage, he put  .95*(1d6+5) for shroud damage  instead of .65*(1d6+5)

this will drop his DPR by roughly 3.

Unless there is some magical +6 to hit I am missing on one of his attacks.


Thank you for bringing this up.  You helped me identify that that build of mine was reliant on an old hybrid assassin where the shrouds were invokable on any power and not just assassin powers.  He has been moved into the nerf bin.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Id also like to attempt to submit my own LVL 1 DPR candidate.

Level 1
Longtooth Shifter, Monk|Ranger
Monastic Tradition (Hybrid): Stone Fist (Hybrid)
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 10, Dex 14, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 10, Dex 14, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 10.


Assuming a Target AC of 15

Throw and Stab (Trident)
+7 Attack bonus: STR Mod (5)+ Proficiency (2)

1d8 weapon + 1d6 quarry +2 (Blood Fury)

Crit= 16*.05= .8
Average hit= 10*.6= 6


Charge: Monk Unarmed Strike (as a basic melee)

+9 attack bonus: STR Mod (5) + Charge (+1) +Proficiency (3)

1d8+ Str Mod (5)+ 2 (Blood Fury)+ 3 (Gorebrute Charge Feat) +8(Flurry of Blows)

Crit= 26*.05= 1.3
Average Hit= 22.5*.7= 15.75

15.75+1.3+6+.8= 23.85 damage

I think that works, let me know if I did it wrong xD    Still new to DPR Calculation
Id also like to attempt to submit my own LVL 1 DPR candidate.

Level 1
Longtooth Shifter, Monk|Ranger

...Awesome stuf...


Your calculations look good, and concise.  I'm away from my books so, while I will post this as the level 1 king, I'd like to know how you are getting 8 from your flurry of blows.

EDIT:  did you take out your crit chance from your base hit chance:  I have a 60% chance to hit and a 5% chance to crit and do 10 damage average when I hit and 16 damage average when I crit, thus I calculate my DPR like this
(.6-.05)*10 + .05*16
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Stone fist flurry


Effect: The target takes damage equal to 3 + your Strength modifier. If the target wasn’t targeted by the triggering attack, the damage increases by 2.


 


My STR Mod is 5.

First of all, congradulations for topping the level 1 section.  I didn't think it was possible.  For the longest time we had a hard time breaking 20 DPR.
Second, be more careful copying and pasting from copyrighted material.  Simply the effect would have been sufficent and less likely to get flagged and removed.
It's always good to hear that this resource is used to help out gamers tweak their characters.  I hope the format was easy to read and had relevant information.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Edited for that, and thanks! And sorry for being so Elitist, Ill try not to come across that way in the future
Throw and Stab (Trident)
[...]
Charge: Monk Unarmed Strike (as a basic melee)
[...]
1d8+ Str Mod (5)+ 2 (Blood Fury)+ 3 (Gorebrute Charge Feat) +8(Flurry of Blows)

How are you applying Flurry of Blows on a BMA when you're a Hybrid monk?  Arguing that "all the features" includes removing the restriction of "monk power or monk paragon path powr"?

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Monk unarmed strike may be used as a basic melee attack. It follows through Hybrid-ing, and counts as a monk power to the best of my knowledge

Unfortunately, basic attacks, including the monk unarmed strike does not count as a power so you cant use flurry of blows on it.  If it was true then a hybrid brawler could mark with his bsaic unarmed strike and then hybrid rogues could sneak on their basic attacks.

Infernis

Monk unarmed strike may be used as a basic melee attack. It follows through Hybrid-ing, and counts as a monk power to the best of my knowledge

Monk Unarmed Strike just makes your fist a half-way decent weapon for weapon powers.  A basic melee attack that's just a basic melee attack still isn't a monk class power.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

I was unaware that monk didn't have a monk power that could be used as a MBA, which I thought you were using.  They are correct that a hybrid monk can only flurry on monk powers.  Unless they release a monk power that can be used as a MBA you'll need to remove the flurry, which removes the advantages there which remove the main draw to monk.  Until next time.  But congratulations on walking in to 4e and doing so well on your first attempt.  It reminds me of my first post on d20 optimization.  I made a jermlaine swordmage with sky high AC and good damage for a tiny character.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Could a setup (for the lvl 1s) be your lvl 1 daily?  Such as the barbarians Skull Takers Rage, that has the effect (hit or miss, so no calculations needed) to gain +1 to attack rolls?
Could a setup (for the lvl 1s) be your lvl 1 daily?  Such as the barbarians Skull Takers Rage, that has the effect (hit or miss, so no calculations needed) to gain +1 to attack rolls?


Yes, but keep in mind that you have only 1 round to unload all your damage.  If you're planning on doing something else (3[w] encounter power) the damage calculated was based on a daily power thus that exact damage is only doable 1/day thus becoming a daily nova, not an encounter nova.  You can use whatever you want before busting open the doors, but if any of it is not doable every encounter(except an action point) then it must be classified under the daily nova section.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?

21.01 DPR(Ch) Bugbear Barbarian/Ranger


Submission: King of Lvl 1
Revision: 1.3
Class/Race: Hybrid Bugbear Barbarian/Ranger
Powers: Throw and Stab (Charge: Howling Strike)
Feats: Manticore's Fury
Setup: Hit to get +2 damage with Manticore's Fury
Attack: Throw and Stab/Howling Strike with large trident in main hand and large maul only holding in off-hand (so don't need Hunter Fighting Style to draw maul), throwing the trident then charge with large maul in both hands.
Intention: Get the DPR at the beginning of the encounter without waiting for be bloodied as a longtooth shifter. Increased weapon damage dices.
Based on: Longtooth Shifter Ranger 1

Revisions

1.1 Changed 2 changes of hunter's quarry to 1 chance because of using howling strike as charge.
1.2 Added extra rampage melee basic attack when crit with howling strike
1.3 Math of Manticore's Fury corrected

Math

Large Trident (Throw and Stab):
Hit (+7 vs AC 15): 5 (Strength) + 2 (Prof.) = 60% crit 5%
DPH: 5.5 crit 10 (Large Trident) + 3.5 crit 6 (Hunter's Quarry) + (.7)(2) (Manticore's Fury) = 10.4 crit 17.4
DPR: (.6)(10.4) + (.05)(17.4) = 7.11

Large Maul (Melee Basic Attack):
Hit (+8 vs AC 15): 5 (Strength) + 2 (Prof.) = 60% crit 5%
DPH: 9 crit 12 (Large Maul) + 5 (Strength) = 14 crit 17
DPR: (.6)(14) + (.05)(17) = 9.25

Large Maul (Howling Strike):
Hit (+8 vs AC 15): 5 (Strength) + 2 (Prof.) + 1 (Charge) = 65% crit 5%
DPH: 9 crit 12 (Large Maul) + 3.5 crit 6 (Howling Strike) + 5 (Strength) + (.65)(2) (Manticore's Fury) + 0 crit 9.25 (Rampage) = 18.8 crit 33.55
DPR: (.65)(18.8) + (.05)(33.55) = 13.8975

You know what they say, if at first you don't succeed... :D

Lvl 1 DPR King Submission

Longtooth Shifter Ranger 1
Hunter Fighting Style, Running Attack
Str 20, Wis 16
Feat: Manticores Fury

Setup: One melee attack (to initiate manticore), Bloodied

Trident Throw and Stab
Attack: +7 vs AC
Hit: 1d8 + 2(Shifting) +2(Manticores Fury)

Maul Marauder's Rush
Attack: +9 vs AC
Hit: 2d6 + 12        
5 (Str) + 2 (prof) + 1 (charge) + 1 (running attack)
5 (Str) + 3 (Wis) + 2 (shifting) + 2 (Manticores fury)

0.6*8.5 + 0.05*12 = 5.7
0.7*19 + 0.05*24 = 14.5
((1-(0.25*0.35)) - (1-(1-0.05)^2))*3.5 + (1-(1-0.05)^2)*6 = 3.4375

DPR (Ch): 5.7 + 14.5 + 3.4375 = 23.6375 (Ch)


EDIT: @ Styrx--Does Bugbears Oversized still increase dice size? I thought they changed that. Also Since you are using Howling Strike, you dont get 2 quarry chances, so your Quarry damage goes down to 2.1 ish.
I think there's a problem with using the trident -Throw and Stab combo at level 1: You only have a limited number of tridents to throw. (Assuming 100gp to start, a maul costs 30 gp, hide armor costs 30gp, leaving about 4 tridents at 10gp each.) This seems somewhat akin to counting DPR based on 1 PP augments for psionic characters.

All is not lost, however. You can pull off the combo with a Xen'drik boomerang, instead. (You'll hold an unused offhand weapon for the first part.) It costs a feat (and 1 damage on the throw), though, so it drops the DPR to 20.1375
Meh, how about  you minor to pick up the one you threw during your next turn?
Does Bugbears Oversized still increase dice size? I thought they changed that.

When you can use oversized weapons you get increased dices. Don't know why not.

Also Since you are using Howling Strike, you dont get 2 quarry chances, so your Quarry damage goes down to 2.1 ish.

You're right. I will correct this. Now 21.425 DPR.

I think there's a problem with using the trident -Throw and Stab combo at level 1: You only have a limited number of tridents to throw. (Assuming 100gp to start, a maul costs 30 gp, hide armor costs 30gp, leaving about 4 tridents at 10gp each.)

Don't need a hide to get high DPR. So we get 1 maul and 7 tridents. I think it's enough for 1 encounter without need for picking up thrown tridents as a minor action.

My intent with the bugbear version is, not to use the longtooth shifting at level 1. I think setup should only be the first round. With bloodfury at higher levels, it's no problem.
Meh, how about  you minor to pick up the one you threw during your next turn?



Good thought, but which square is it in?

Meh, how about  you minor to pick up the one you threw during your next turn?



Good thought, but which square is it in?



With 7 floating around the battlefield it shouldn't be hard to find one nearby(you can pick one up in an adjacent non-hostile's square).
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
You know what they say, if at first you don't succeed... :D

Lvl 1 DPR King Submission

Longtooth Shifter Ranger 1
Hunter Fighting Style, Running Attack
Str 20, Wis 16
Feat: Manticores Fury

Setup: One melee attack (to initiate manticore), Bloodied

Trident Throw and Stab
Attack: +7 vs AC
Hit: 1d8 + 2(Shifting) +2(Manticores Fury)

Maul Marauder's Rush
Attack: +9 vs AC
Hit: 2d6 + 12        
5 (Str) + 2 (prof) + 1 (charge) + 1 (running attack)
5 (Str) + 3 (Wis) + 2 (shifting) + 2 (Manticores fury)

0.6*8.5 + 0.05*12 = 5.7
0.7*19 + 0.05*24 = 14.5
((1-(0.25*0.35)) - (1-(1-0.05)^2))*3.5 + (1-(1-0.05)^2)*6 = 3.4375

DPR (Ch): 5.7 + 14.5 + 3.4375 = 23.6375 (Ch)


EDIT: @ Styrx--Does Bugbears Oversized still increase dice size? I thought they changed that. Also Since you are using Howling Strike, you dont get 2 quarry chances, so your Quarry damage goes down to 2.1 ish.


You, my friend, have shown us the true spirit of hard core optimization.  Let's eek out that last .3 DPR!!!
I like the synergy of the feat and hurl'n'hack

DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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