Ranger/Pathfinder/Demigod

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Ranger/Pathfinder/Demigod
A lot of the groundwork for current Ranger theory has been ironed out in these two threads by lordduskblade:
Ranger/Pitfighter/Demigod 
Ranger/Stormwarden/Demigod

The Pathfinder build I've thrown together draws heavily from those two threads. This build uses the Windrise Ports background presented in Dragon 376: Adventurers of the Realms to multiclass into both Fighter and Barbarian.

Necessary Equipment
Solitaire (Violet) (Adventurer's Vault; 1,125,000g)
Belt of Titan Strength (Player's Handbook; 625,000g)
Boots of Eagerness (Player's Handbook; 4,200g)
Crown of Victory (Adventurer's Vault 2; 2,625,000g)
Gauntlets of Destruction (Player's Handbook; 85,000g)
+6 Magic Elderhide Armor (Player's Handbook; 1,125,000g)
+6 Torc of Power Preservation (Adventurer's Vault; 3,125,000g)
+6 Iron Armbands of Power (Adventurer's Vault; 1,125,000g)
+6 Magic Bastard Sword (Player's Handbook; 1,125,000g)
+6 Magic Bastard Sword (Player's Handbook; 1,125,000g)

Total Cost: 12,089,200g

(Nova Build) Half Orc: 34 Attacks vs Target 1, 2 attacks vs Target 2, and 2 attacks vs target 3; 38 total
Build Progression
Character Builder Summary
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 30
Half-Orc, Ranger, Pathfinder, Demigod
Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style
Student of the Sword: Student of One-Handed Weapons
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Dexterity
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Strength
Background: Windrise Ports (Windrise Ports Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 28, Con 13, Dex 26, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 10.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.



AC: 44 Fort: 41 Reflex: 40 Will: 34
HP: 185 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 46


TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +23, Perception +23, Stealth +27, Acrobatics +27, Athletics +31, Heal +23, Endurance +22


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +18, History +16, Insight +18, Intimidate +17, Religion +16, Streetwise +15, Thievery +22


FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 4: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 6: Student of the Sword
Level 8: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Two-Weapon Defense (retrained to Berserker's Fury at Level 22)
Level 11: Prime Punisher
Level 12: Prime Quarry (retrained to Improved Prime Shot at Level 21)
Level 14: Called Shot
Level 16: Acolyte Power
Level 18: Two-Weapon Opening
Level 20: Adept Power
Level 21: Heavy Blade Mastery
Level 22: Ferocious Critical
Level 24: Rending Tempest
Level 26: Martial Mastery (retrained to Novice Power at Level 27)
Level 28: Martial Mastery
Level 30: Epic Resurgence


POWERS
Ranger at-will 1: Twin Strike
Ranger at-will 1: Hit and Run
Ranger encounter 1: Off-Hand Strike
Ranger daily 1: Jaws of the Wolf
Ranger utility 2: Begin the Hunt
Ranger encounter 3: Ruffling Sting
Ranger daily 5: Frenzied Skirmish
Ranger utility 6: Serpentine Dodge
Ranger encounter 7: Claws of the Griffon
Ranger daily 9: Attacks on the Run (retrained to Jackal Strike at Adept Power)
Ranger utility 10: Blood of the Fallen
Ranger encounter 13: Off-Hand Diversion (replaces Off-Hand Strike)
Ranger daily 15: Blade Cascade (replaces Jaws of the Wolf)
Ranger utility 16: Evade the Blow (retrained to Spur the Cycle at Acolyte Power)
Ranger encounter 17: Untamed Outburst (replaces Claws of the Griffon)
Ranger daily 19: Cruel Cage of Steel (replaces Frenzied Skirmish)
Ranger utility 22: Hunt the Herd
Ranger encounter 23: Nonchalant Collapse (replaces Ruffling Sting)
Ranger encounter 27: Death Rend (retrained to Hurricane of Blades at Novice Power) (replaces Untamed Outburst)
Ranger daily 29: Follow-up Blow (replaces Cruel Cage of Steel)


ITEMS
Magic Bastard sword +6 (2), Solitaire (Violet) (epic tier), Belt of Titan Strength (epic tier), Boots of Eagerness (heroic tier), Crown of Victory (epic tier), Gauntlets of Destruction (paragon tier), Torc of Power Preservation +6, Iron Armbands of Power (epic tier), Magic Elderhide Armor +6
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


Stat Progression
Lv 1 Stats: 18 STR (9 pts +2), 16 DEX (5 pts +2), 11 CON (1 pt), 10 INT, WIS 15 (7 pts), 8 CHA
Lv 4 Stats: 19 STR, 17 DEX, 11 CON, 10 INT, 15 WIS, 8 CHA
Lv 8 Stats: 20 STR, 18 DEX, 11 CON, 10 INT, 15 WIS, 8 CHA
Lv 11 Stats: 21 STR, 19 DEX, 12 CON, 11 INT, 16 WIS, 9 CHA
Lv 14 Stats: 22 STR, 20 DEX, 12 CON, 11 INT, 16 WIS, 9 CHA
Lv 18 Stats: 23 STR, 21 DEX, 12 CON, 11 INT, 16 WIS, 9 CHA
Lv 21 Stats: 26 STR, 24 DEX, 13 CON, 12 INT, 17 WIS, 10 CHA
Lv 24 Stats: 27 STR, 25 DEX, 13 CON, 12 INT, 17 WIS, 10 CHA
Lv 28 Stats: 28 STR, 26 DEX, 13 CON, 12 INT, 17 WIS, 10 CHA

Nova Turn-Lv 30
*This nova assumes that you have two action points. This is attained through reaching your first milestone or utilizing Act Together.

*Follow Up Blow, Berserker's Fury, and Hunt the Herd are active.
 
*Even though Jackal Strike is listed at the end of the attack sequence, it will be used the moment Target 1 is bloodied.

*Spur the Cycle and Blood of the Fallen are used as soon as Target 1 is reduced to 0 HP.

*If Target 1 dies before the attack sequence is finished, subsequent attacks are then made against Target 2. If target 2 dies before the attack sequence is finished, subsequent attacks are then made against Target 3.

Target 1
No Action = Begin the Hunt (+2 to attack rolls against the creature this power allows you to designate as your quarry)
Free = Belt of Titan Strength (1st Item Daily)
Free = Student of the Sword
Move > Minor = Nonchalant Collapse
Free = Furious Assault (+1d10 dmg)
Follow Up Blow
Standard = Hurricane of Blades
Free = Torc of Power Preservation (Recover Hurricane of Blades; 2nd Item Daily)
Follow Up Blow
Minor = Off Hand Diversion
Follow Up Blow
Action Point (Gain a Standard Action and a Move Action; Recover Nonchalant Collapse via Martial Mastery)
Move > Minor = Nonchalant Collapse
Follow Up Blow
Standard = Hurricane of Blades
Follow Up Blow
Action Point (Gain a Standard Action and a Move Action; Recover Nonchalant Collapse via Martial Mastery)
Move > Minor = Nonchalant Collapse
Follow Up Blow
Standard = Blade Cascade
Follow Up Blow
Epic Resurgence (Recover Nonchalant Collapse on a critical hit)
Free = Two Weapon Opening
Free = Solitaire (Violet) (Gain 1 action point)
Free = Boots of Eagerness (Gain a Move Action)
Move > Minor = Nonchalant Collapse
Follow Up Blow
Action Point (Gain a Standard Action and a Move Action; Recover Nonchalant Collapse via Martial Mastery)
Move > Minor = Nonchalant Collapse
Follow Up Blow
Standard = Twin Strike
Follow Up Blow
Free = Jackal Strike
Follow Up Blow 
Hunter's Quarry (3d6 damage)
Free = Blood of the Fallen (Heal HP equal to surge value +STR mod)
Free = Spur the Cycle (Gain a Standard Action)

Target 2 Standard = Slasher's Mark (Spend a healing surge)
Follow Up Blow
Hunter's Quarry (3d6 damage)

Target 3 Slasher's Mark (Secondary Attack)
Follow Up Blow
Hunter's Quarry (3d6 damage)

(Durability Build) Dwarf: - Attacks vs Target 1, - attacks vs Target 2, and - attacks vs target 3; - total 
Build Progression
Comming Soon


Special Notes
*If you happen to be adjacent to 4 targets, a double application of Hurricane of Blades + Follow Up Blow can generate as many as 16 attacks in this build's nova sequence. This would result in twenty-four attacks vs Target 1, six attacks vs Target 2, six attacks vs Target 3, and four attacks vs Target 4 for a total of 40 attacks made in one round.

*Hunt the Herd can generate 3d6 to 12d6 damage in conjunction with Hurricane of Blades assuming 1-4 targets. If you have room, Lethal Hunter can be a huge damage upgrade here. Predatory Action would also be a massive damage increase as it would allow you the possibillity of dealing Hunter's Quarry damage three times per target.

*If a minion is adjacent to you during your attack sequence vs Target 1, drop an attack on him with Hurricane of Blades. This will trigger Spur the Cycle giving you a third standard action vs Target 1. Hurricane of Blades should allow you to test any adjacent enemy in this manner.
[/sblock]
Reserved
So Hurricane of Blades is a Primal Power not a Martial Power so Martial Mastery will not recover it. As for Hurricane of Blades + Follow up Blow vs multiple targets ya you would get 2 attacks vs each target one from Hurricane of Blades and one from Follow up Blow.
So Hurricane of Blades is a Primal Power not a Martial Power so Martial Mastery will not recover it. As for Hurricane of Blades + Follow up Blow vs multiple targets ya you would get 2 attacks vs each target one from Hurricane of Blades and one from Follow up Blow.

AH! Good catch, thanks!

So that eliminates Hurricane of Blades against Target 2. So then we fall back to the tried and true Blade Cascade which reduces our total attack number by one. OP edited to reflect the changes.
Where is Windrise Ports from?
Dragon Magazine. Article about the Adventures of the Realms. (I think)

Every time I see this background I can not help but think that every god killer is going to be from there. This back ground is just made of win for optimizers.
I've updated the OP with a feat, power, and stat progression from levels 1-30.

EDIT: I've come up with a better attack sequence. I ditched Battle Awareness for Student of the Sword so I didn't have to rely on Slasher's Mark to enable Jackal's Strike.
Shameless bump.

I've altered the build quit a bit and it's looking pretty good IMO. What do you all think?
Here's an interesting point: If you happen to clip a minion with Hurricane of Blades during your attack sequence, you can trigger Spur the Cycle and gain a third standard action vs Target 1. Using Blade Cascade, this would increase the total number of attacks made vs Target 1 to 29 .
Nifty nova.

Watch Follow Up Blow be errata'd to once a round.
Nifty nova.

Watch Follow Up Blow be errata'd to once a round.

Yeah, Follow Up Blow needs a nerf ala Blade Cascade. It's only going to facilitate huge problems in the future if they don't cap it.
Even if it's once per round per target it'd still be very effective. As it is it's almost too twinky.
Even if it's once per round per target it'd still be very effective. As it is it's almost too twinky.

This still allows sick interactions with multi-attack/target powers. It should probably only allow 1-2 attacks per round and give some kind of buff while the stance is active.
Yeah, but since melee attacks from most classes are typically at most 2 creatures there wouldn't be a whole hell of a lot of twinkage. Blade Cascade is the only power that I can recall of the top of my head that's more than that, although I think there might be some Fighter powers that are eluding me.

Maybe give some bonus to offhand weapon attacks/damage?
Yeah, but since melee attacks from most classes are typically at most 2 creatures there wouldn't be a whole hell of a lot of twinkage. Blade Cascade is the only power that I can recall of the top of my head that's more than that, although I think there might be some Fighter powers that are eluding me.

Maybe give some bonus to offhand weapon attacks/damage?

The thing about Blade Cascade is that it ends if you miss. That makes it less reliable than attacks like Hurricane of Blades. Fighters can make really good use Follow Up Blow with all of the close burst 1 attacks that they have.
I would argue that Follow Up Blow wouldn't work with any Close attacks, as the power states that hitting with a melee attack power is what triggers the additional attack. I read that as requiring the Melee Weapon type/range/whatever it's called again for applicable powers.
I would argue that Follow Up Blow wouldn't work with any Close attacks, as the power states that hitting with a melee attack power is what triggers the additional attack. I read that as requiring the Melee Weapon type/range/whatever it's called again for applicable powers.

You may have a point there. I think I agree with you.
I've added a dwarf build to the first post. I will be adding more racial builds as time permits.
Anyone care to comment on the Dwarf build? I think Storm of Blows is the new Blade Cascade and should be capped in a similar manner.
According to the compendium, you can only use Storm of Blows 3 times.

Effect: After the attack, you can shift 1 square and repeat the attack against another target within reach. You can then shift 1 square and repeat the attack against a third target within reach. After the final attack, you can shift 1 square.

He is using Storm of Blades (Barb 13) not Strom of Blows (Fighter 13).
My mistake, given the blows in his last post. There are too many SoBs in D&D.

With Blades it's limited by your con mod. Which with Follow up Blow is kinda broken.

1[W] + Strength modifier damage. Then repeat the attack against the target or against another creature within reach. You can make the attack a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier.

If WotC pays attention to this, watch FoB be changed to work only with Ranger powers and/or once per target.
Most people already interpret Follow up Blow to be once per target.
I'm a little surprised that you stuck with axes on the dwarf given the massive Con and limited strength. I would have though that craghammers with hammer rhythm would be a shoe-in for the weapon choice. All you lose is high crit (and 2-4 points of damage on a crit depending upon tier). You gain a lot of reliability and the dwarf will be missing a lot, so the reliable con damage is very nice.
I'm a little surprised that you stuck with axes on the dwarf given the massive Con and limited strength. I would have though that craghammers with hammer rhythm would be a shoe-in for the weapon choice. All you lose is high crit (and 2-4 points of damage on a crit depending upon tier). You gain a lot of reliability and the dwarf will be missing a lot, so the reliable con damage is very nice.

Maybe I'm nuts, but how does -1 to attack (starting 16 instead of starting 18) constitute as "missing a lot" and "limited"?

As for Hammer Rhythm, I thought the prevailing wisdom was that Weapon Expertise pushed hit percentages to the point where miss effect feats became less of a damage boost. I believe grailhawk and I debated that in the Pitfighter thread.

Regardless, the builds I'm presenting can certainly be changed to taste. There are a lot of options out there and weapon choice is one of those options. I'll give hammers a mention under the Dwarf build's special notes.
My mistake, given the blows in his last post. There are too many SoBs in D&D.

With Blades it's limited by your con mod. Which with Follow up Blow is kinda broken.

ARG. Sorry about that.


If WotC pays attention to this, watch FoB be changed to work only with Ranger powers and/or once per target.

Limiting Follow Up Blow to Ranger powers still allows sick interaction with Blade Cascade. Not to mention that power designs in the future could be affected as they would have to design powers with the assumption that Follow Up Blow is active. It's much easier to cap it at about 3 or 4 attacks (allowing for say, Twin Strike + a minor action attack). It is a daily but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

I just had a thought. They could limit it to triggering only once per power (so hurricane of blades vs. 6 targets will only give you one Follow Up Blow). They could also add the caveat that if you recycle a power in any way (Torc of Power Preservation, Martial Mastery) and it already granted you a Follow Up Blow, it doesn't give you subsequent Follow Up Blows.

On top of all of this, Storm of Blades needs some kind of nerf. As my dwarf build demonstrates, it can generate 6 attacks at level 13 with the appropriate CON score. You normally have to wait until Lv 27 for that. It surpasses it's older brother at level 14 and only gets better from there.
I corrected some errors I made in the retraining progressions. I also included Two Weapon Opening in the Dwarf build. I had originally excluded it because I thought it had a hefty DEX requirement.

According to RAW, the attack granted by Two Weapon Opening is a Melee Basic Attack which is a melee attack power. As such, Follow Up Blow triggers whenever you take the attack from Two Weapon Opening. I've altered the nova turns to reflect this.

I've also added a Dragonborn build that I intend to explore a bit more as time permits. Primarily, I'm looking for ways to abuse Dragon Breath. For example, Hunt the Herd can amount to some massive damage when combined with it.
It's been a while since I've toyed with these builds. It really is interesting to re-read the things that we discussed here. Storm of Blades got the nerf it deserved.

I'll have to get back to the drawing board with these build as time permits.
Nice builds, though I'm not sure I agree with making a nova build assuming a critical triggers. If it doesn't, you're probably gonna be in for a lot less attacks, and that could be the difference between meeting the 1,660 damage you need to drop any Solo in the game.

Another point to bear in mind is that Follow-Up Blow was errata'd to not include Basic Attacks. That means you lose a couple of attacks as well.
Nice builds, though I'm not sure I agree with making a nova build assuming a critical triggers. If it doesn't, you're probably gonna be in for a lot less attacks, and that could be the difference between meeting the 1,660 damage you need to drop any Solo in the game.

Another point to bear in mind is that Follow-Up Blow was errata'd to not include Basic Attacks. That means you lose a couple of attacks as well.



I understand what you mean about assuming critical hits. I haven't put any math behind this but so many attacks are made (40+) that I think it can be a safe assumption (1 in 10 everytime the d20 is rolled) that a crit occurs just to showcase what the builds can do. If I were trying to derive an actual number, assuming a crit would be flawed for purposes of math.

As for Follow Up Blow, the errata will indeed nerf the current builds.
Well, I modified the build to take account for the nerfs to Hurricane of Blades, Storm of Blades, and Follow Up Blow. Needless to say the nerfs took their toll. I've consolidated the builds into one master build, as the CON focused Dwarf no longer had a leg to stand on to distinguish himself from the other races.

The Dwarf build lost 14 attacks (vs Target 1) to the nerfs while the Half Orc lost 8. I've stuck with the Half Orc as the baseline race.

I'll be working to improve the build as time permits.

EDIT: I was using one too many daily item powers. Dropped Ring of Draconic Zeal and Boots of Eagerness. Added Belt of Titan Strength and Gauntlets of Destruction.
double post removed

Just wanted to let you know, you've officially been added to the Handbook's reference list. Keep up the good work!
Just wanted to let you know, you've officially been added to the Handbook's reference list. Keep up the good work!




Cool, I appreciate the link.

With the removal of a CON based path for Rangers I'm not sure this build has anything that can really set it apart from Pitfighters and Stormwardens. It relied on making more than double the attacks of its brothers to overcome their damage boosting abilities. The Pathfinder can still make a few more attacks (currently 6 against a single target, 10 against three targets) but it's not going to be enough to overcome things like Extra Damage Action and Dirty Fighting.

I'm willing to bet that this build will end up looking a lot like a Stormwarden.
Well, remember, you're getting that many more attacks because you're assuming a crit. A Pit Fighter or Stormwarden with the same assumption and gear keyed towards it won't lag too far behind in the attacks department, and their attacks come with a lot more muscle behind them (though if you pack Frost, you'll do the same damage as a Stormwarden, you're still lagging plenty behind a Pit Fighter with Battlecrazed weapons).

Regarding the point of this build resembling a Stormwarden... huh? You can do some shenanigans with the Timeless Locket Neck Slot Item (AV 2) combined with Pathfinder's Action that are pretty cool (two Standard Actions from 1 Action Point? Oh, hells yeah!) and unique in their own right. As a matter of fact, I have a pretty interesting build with a Pathfinder that MC's Barbarian and uses the above combo in my garage. I'm not much of a believer in crit-fishing or in backgrounds (they're just not balanced, how can you compare +1 to Nature to Windrise Ports? Sheesh...), so I'll see if I can produce enough damage to make it worthy of posting, though you could certainly go for the DPR if you so chose.

The Pathfinder actually has a cool thing going in that he's a very versatile Ranger; you can off-tank pretty well (those +2 surges are more useful than what they seem at first glance, and your Daily marks), you can nova burst well (provided you select powers to that end - heck, I'm getting a bit more nova muscle from the Pathfinder than the Stormwarden), and like any Ranger, dual-wielding Frost weapons = DPR machine.
Well, remember, you're getting that many more attacks because you're assuming a crit. A Pit Fighter or Stormwarden with the same assumption and gear keyed towards it won't lag too far behind in the attacks department, and their attacks come with a lot more muscle behind them (though if you pack Frost, you'll do the same damage as a Stormwarden, you're still lagging plenty behind a Pit Fighter with Battlecrazed weapons).



There was only ever one attack granted by one assumed critical hit. I never assumed more than one and I only did that to showcase the effects Epic Resurgence. Since one crit was assumed for Epic Resurgence, I threw in one attack from Two Weapon Opening and one attack from Follow Up Blow. I wanted to showcase Epic Resurgence because there was a time that it was pretty important to the build (refreshing Nonchallant Collapse and using it with the move action granted by Boots of Eagerness). The sheer number of attacks it had came from Hurricane/Storm of Blades, minor/free action attacks, two melee basic attacks, and all of the resulting Follow Up Blows.

Regardless, I have since removed the single assumed crit because I was using one too many item dailies and Boots of Eagerness had to take the cut. As a result, Epic Resurgence, the one assumed crit, and it's resulting Follow Up Blow, were all taken out of the nova sequence. The build is still getting 6 more attacks (against a single target; a lot more as you increase the number of targets) than your Pitfighter/Stormwarden builds. Zero critical hits are assumed. The rub is that 6 attacks won't be enough to overcome things like Dirty Fighting and Extra Damage Action.

Prenerf, the CON build was generating 44 attacks against a single target. That was probably enough to come out on top.

Regarding the point of this build resembling a Stormwarden... huh? You can do some shenanigans with the Timeless Locket Neck Slot Item (AV 2) combined with Pathfinder's Action that are pretty cool (two Standard Actions from 1 Action Point? Oh, hells yeah!) and unique in their own right. As a matter of fact, I have a pretty interesting build with a Pathfinder that MC's Barbarian and uses the above combo in my garage. I'm not much of a believer in crit-fishing or in backgrounds (they're just not balanced, how can you compare +1 to Nature to Windrise Ports? Sheesh...), so I'll see if I can produce enough damage to make it worthy of posting, though you could certainly go for the DPR if you so chose.



The point of comparing it the Stormwarden is that there isn't a whole lot that Pathfinder can do to seperate itself from comparable things that Stormwarden can do. I didn't say they would be exactly the same.

As for Windrise Ports, it needs a nerf just like Hurricane/Storm of Blades needed a nerf. Until then its part of the game and that's what CO is all about. At the end of the day, Windrise Ports isn't even close to being as broken as epic destiny infinite loops.

The Pathfinder actually has a cool thing going in that he's a very versatile Ranger; you can off-tank pretty well (those +2 surges are more useful than what they seem at first glance, and your Daily marks), you can nova burst well (provided you select powers to that end - heck, I'm getting a bit more nova muscle from the Pathfinder than the Stormwarden), and like any Ranger, dual-wielding Frost weapons = DPR machine.



Right, but at the end of the day, "getting a bit more nova muscle" doesn't make Pathfinder better than its brothers. It makes it kinda like a Stormwarden, which was the point I was making about the two paths looking similar after all is said and done.

With all due respect, you have never rated versatility, off tanking ability, or a couple of extra healing surges very highly in any of your guides. Your credo has always been "damage: cause that's your job".
There was only ever one attack granted by one assumed critical hit. I never assumed more than one and I only did that to showcase the effects Epic Resurgence. Since one crit was assumed for Epic Resurgence, I threw in one attack from Two Weapon Opening and one attack from Follow Up Blow. I wanted to showcase Epic Resurgence because there was a time that it was pretty important to the build (refreshing Nonchallant Collapse and using it with the move action granted by Boots of Eagerness). The sheer number of attacks it had came from Hurricane/Storm of Blades, minor/free action attacks, two melee basic attacks, and all of the resulting Follow Up Blows.



Ah, but that critical triggered the Violet Solitaire, which gives you two actions because of Pathfinder's Action. That's what I meant, this build actually benefited more from criticals than anyone else.

Regardless, I have since removed the single assumed crit because I was using one too many item dailies and Boots of Eagerness had to take the cut. As a result, Epic Resurgence, the one assumed crit, and it's resulting Follow Up Blow, were all taken out of the nova sequence. The build is still getting 6 more attacks (against a single target; a lot more as you increase the number of targets) than your Pitfighter/Stormwarden builds. Zero critical hits are assumed. The rub is that 6 attacks won't be enough to overcome things like Dirty Fighting and Extra Damage Action.

Prenerf, the CON build was generating 44 attacks against a single target. That was probably enough to come out on top.



Admittedly, yes, 44 attacks has a way of doing that.

I also apologize if I came off as dismissive; that was not my intention. I only wanted to point out that a part of the additional number of attacks came from the critical hit and Violet Solitaire combo, and that a Pit Fighter (I won't mention the Stormwarden, because his nova is undeniably weaker) could also jump on that gravy train.

Also, I'd like to remind you that Boots of Eagerness and Violet Solitaire are Encounter powers, not Dailies, so you don't have to worry about them when tallying up how many items you're burning up in your nova.

Also, I changed the Pit Fighter nova up somewhat; I attack one less time, yet deal more damage, and eliminated the risk of the Torc of Power Preservation not triggering via using the Timeless Locket instead. Check it out; you might get an idea or two.

The point of comparing it the Stormwarden is that there isn't a whole lot that Pathfinder can do to seperate itself from comparable things that Stormwarden can do. I didn't say they would be exactly the same.

As for Windrise Ports, it needs a nerf just like Hurricane/Storm of Blades needed a nerf. Until then its part of the game and that's what CO is all about. At the end of the day, Windrise Ports isn't even close to being as broken as epic destiny infinite loops.



It may not be as overpowered as ED infinite loops, but it's up there. I've seen a couple of builds get pretty ridiculous owing to the double multiclass. With that being said, I wouldn't have a problem with it if all the backgrounds were of a similar power level. But they're not (the closest is Auspicious Birth or Born Under a Bad Sign, and that will net you 20 HP if you dump Con, which is not a good idea), so I don't use them.

Right, but at the end of the day, "getting a bit more nova muscle" doesn't make Pathfinder better than its brothers. It makes it kinda like a Stormwarden, which was the point I was making about the two paths looking similar after all is said and done.

With all due respect, you have never rated versatility, off tanking ability, or a couple of extra healing surges very highly in any of your guides. Your credo has always been "damage: cause that's your job".



I don't think that's completely true; I don't rate Close Burst attacks highly for most Strikers, but that's because they lose a lot of bonuses available to Melee attacks (Iron Armbands of Power, for instance), and because the damage itself takes a hit compared to single-target powers, so they usually deal piddly damage by comparison, and that's just not a good deal IMHO.

That being said, I do rate versatility a bit lower than specialization, but I still rate it high (the Pathfinder was Blue even before I was aware of this thread; now, he's pushing for Sky Blue). That being said, this build can be a very interesting Defender/Striker hybrid because of Cruel Recovery. Toss in Lethal Hunter and some Gauntlets of Destruction, and you're averaging a 15 + Wis modifier THP buffer throughout an entire fight (that's a lot IMHO). That, combined with the extra healing surges and abilities such as Adamant Recovery can make you very hard to bring down. Toss in a Daily that marks, and it's not inconceivable to be a Defender for a full encounter. And you do have one advantage over a Defender, and that's your nova. You can likely one-shot Elites with ease, and even Solos would be wary of you.

The reason why I was skeptical of the comparison to the Stormwarden is because of Cruel Recovery; you have one of the best durability-oriented features in the game, why not optimize it? That means Heavy Armor and Str/Wis.

One of the things I have done with mine is focus on str/wisdom, to maximize cruel recovery and the interesting ranger riders.  The Master's Blade allows two stances, so Master of the Hunt and Follow-Up Blow can both be activated.


Using a crown of victory allows 2 APs per encounter, so a planned Act Together plus regular AP is possible. This grants another 2 standard and move actions. Couple this with a timeless locket which can convert a minor into a standard action.  Add in the boots of eagerness which provide another move action once per encounter, and that's one big nova potential - I believe that adds up to 4 standard actions, 3 move, and one minor in a round.

 The challenge is actually finding (or recharging) enough minor action attacks to make use of all that move.
San Francisco Bay Area D&Der. Loyal fan of the Birthright campaign setting.


Heh, its been a while since I've been able to work on this build. Lets see if I can pick up where we left off here.

Ah, but that critical triggered the Violet Solitaire, which gives you two actions because of Pathfinder's Action. That's what I meant, this build actually benefited more from criticals than anyone else.


This was an oversight on my part. When I revised the build I had forgotten that the Solitaire triggered off a critical hit.

Also, I'd like to remind you that Boots of Eagerness and Violet Solitaire are Encounter powers, not Dailies, so you don't have to worry about them when tallying up how many items you're burning up in your nova.


It's been a while so I can't remember exactly what the third item daily power was but I do remember that a Ring of Draconic Zeal was in there for a melee basic attack (which no longer generates attacks from Follow Up Blow) and the Torc of Power Preservation for obvious reasons. I took out the Ring and added Belt of Titan Strength for more super obvious reasons.

I took out boots of eagerness because without accounting for Epic Resurgence recovering Nonchallant Collapse (occurs on a crit), I didn't have a use for the move action.

That being said, I do rate versatility a bit lower than specialization, but I still rate it high (the Pathfinder was Blue even before I was aware of this thread; now, he's pushing for Sky Blue). That being said, this build can be a very interesting Defender/Striker hybrid because of Cruel Recovery. Toss in Lethal Hunter and some Gauntlets of Destruction, and you're averaging a 15 + Wis modifier THP buffer throughout an entire fight (that's a lot IMHO). That, combined with the extra healing surges and abilities such as Adamant Recovery can make you very hard to bring down. Toss in a Daily that marks, and it's not inconceivable to be a Defender for a full encounter. And you do have one advantage over a Defender, and that's your nova. You can likely one-shot Elites with ease, and even Solos would be wary of you.

The reason why I was skeptical of the comparison to the Stormwarden is because of Cruel Recovery; you have one of the best durability-oriented features in the game, why not optimize it? That means Heavy Armor and Str/Wis.



I agree with all of this. Pathfinder as a whole certainly has some interesting potential that I intend to explore some more. Anyway, thanks for participating in the discussion and I'm sorry it took so long for me to reply to this. I don't always get the free time I would like for D&D and my participation on the forums can be very sporadic.
My party is lacking a defender (only three players), so my ranger/pathfinder is playing as the de facto defender and it works out fairly well.

MP2 has opened up some interesting new options for the pathfinder.  Snarling Wolf Stance (ranger 5) allows the ranger an opportunity action melee basic against any enemy that attacks him. While most rangers probably don't have the defenses to wade in and take a lot of hits, the pathfinder is built for exactly that - he can really maximize this stance. For even more hilarity, couple this with the master's blade daily power and the fighter stance Dervish's Challenge (also MP2), which gives a off-hand attack as a free action whenever you make a melee basic as an opportunity action - exactly what snarling wolf stance does.  Basically, a twin strike WITH stat modifiers outside your turn, once each per enemy's turn? Godly.

This also has the possibility of boosting the pathfinder's nova, because activating dervish's challenge is a minor action attack, at 3[w]+str damage.

I'm torn on the new lvl 9 daily, Marked for Death.  It grants another two dice of hunter's quarry, which directly translates into a lot more temp hp for the pathfinder.  It also marks for a round, which helps the pathfinder is his pseudo-defender role.  However, you only get the extra dice against one enemy, so it depends on if your dm throws bosses at the party with any regularity.  It also has stiff competition at the level, including the regular suspects like Attacks on the Run or new additions like grabbing Dervish's Challenge from the fighter.
San Francisco Bay Area D&Der. Loyal fan of the Birthright campaign setting.
I've started updating this build with MP2 in mind. The build is back up to 34 attacks vs Target 1 and 38 attacks total.

-Added Begin the Hunt at level 2 (+2 to attacks made against the quarry designated by this power).

-Added Blood of the Fallen at level 10 (heal surge +STR mod when you reduce your quarry to 0 HP).

-Re-Added the stuff that triggers on a critical hit.

-Re-Added Boots of Eagerness.

-Added Crown of Victory (thanks Roele!)

As an aside, I noticed they still didn't really help out Ranger dailies at level 25. They even "redid" Cruel Cage of Steel and made it worse IMO.


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