Wizards of the Coast announcement

There have been several questions lately regarding the future of the Star Wars Miniatures and Roleplaying Game and until now I haven’t had definitive answers to give you.  After a lengthy evaluation, Wizards of the Coast has decided not to renew the Star Wars license with Lucasfilm. We’ve had a long and fantastic run, but with the economic downturn, we have made the tough decision to discontinue our Star Wars lines.


The license officially ends in May this year, with WotC product available through August. In the meantime, we have awesome new products still coming your way. This week, we released The Dark Times minis and Galaxy of Intrigue RPG. We’ll have more coming with Masters of the Force minis in April, which will have some of your most favorite characters along with rare creatures from the Dejarik Holochess game that have never appeared in our game. We’ll also release The Unknown Regions RPG in April, which includes entirely new planets and mini-adventures for each world.


We are finishing the line with a bang so look for special programs at your local game store to stock up on favorite sets before they go into the vault. We will continue to support our Star Wars forums on the Wizards Community site so you can reach out and chat with us and other fans.


While I know the news is disappointing, we wanted to make this announcement as soon as possible and thank you for being such great fans. It’s been a fantastic ride with the Star Wars community and working with Lucasfilm. We hope you enjoy the next several months of great products. You never know when we may circle back again!


Greg Yahn


Director of Marketing, Wizards of the Coast

Man, I take a break from the board for a few days and all of a sudden the game is ending?

While it will be a huge relief for my wallet, I'm still a bit saddened by the news. So Masters of the Force is going to be the last set? When is that due to be released and is it the only one we'll get before they stop entirely?

I'll continue to keep playing, as I've mentioned before. I still have a ton of figures that I haven't even tried yet that are just waiting to see the tabletop.

So it's a sad day indeed, but hardly the end of the world.


i believe at the moment its release date is in early april, so only 2 months away.
If you hadn't taken a break from the boards...  the game would have continued!

But no... YOU had to take a break...   Sealed
Come join me at Millennium Games in Rochester NY for some Star Wars Minis gaming! Games are every other Saturday. Look for the Battle for Naboo coming soon! COMING SOON: Star Wars Starships game: Death Star Trench Run New movemet rules 3D Map 30 Rebel ships Unlimited TIES 30 rounds of combat Can YOU destroy the Death Star in time?
I wish i could wake up and realize this was a bad dream and that they where just going on hiatus for another year.  I would have felt much better.
I feel empty inside.
What has your group been playing Hothie?


We've been playing Dominion. Got a great deal on it at GenCon, and almost everyone we've taught it to absolutely loves it. Won many awards, including Game of the Year last year, etc. I'd highly recommend it. We've also been playing some other silly card games (Great Dalmoody, etc), but Dominion is by far the one we play most.



Aaaah I was looking at Dominion but it had no minis which we do like. I can see it's number 6 on BGG. If you play as a group you could do a lot worse than Last Night On Earth. Heroes running around fending off Zombies is just such a winner. Space Hulk 3rd Edition was actually in BGG's top 10 until GW got a bit unhappy with some IP infringements in the support section which in turn caused BGG to remove almost everything (bits slowly returning). The game then dropped to 210 (now rising) as some Geek members changed their previous ratings of 9 or 10 to a 1 as a protest at GW interference. Anyway it's a great game but it only plays 2. Just like here the mob can be fickle.


Not exactly SWM related, but if you like LNoE, you might enjoy their other game, A Touch of Evil. It's got great miniatures and can be played competetively or cooperatively. They're a great company!
I was looking into the AAT I think the closest you can get is the Ertl model which is about 1:32 i.e about 50% to big, but I am personally going to get one just to have a look how they look on the battlefield. They are also pretty cheap on ebay around $12 (or 8 GBP). 

I havent found anything though for a gunship which I thought would at least add atmospherically to the battlefield.



The latest batch of Star Wars Transformer toys at my local Mejier Store has an AAT that is almost perfect. They're $16, but with a little glue and a quick brown wash, they look great next to Battle Droids!
If you hadn't taken a break from the boards...  the game would have continued!

But no... YOU had to take a break...  



lol, my bad! Foot in mouth

I was also conviniently not alive when the Rebels found a small thermal exhaust port to focus their attack towards so many moons ago (It was no moon!)... Innocent

Y'know, I think it only really started to sink in last night.  My favourite game is ending.  I actually got quite upset about it. 

Y'know, I think it only really started to sink in last night.  My favourite game is ending.  I actually got quite upset about it. 



I opened up my DT case and then literally minutes later I read the announcement. I looked at my case and thought why did I bother?! It was a depressing moment. But it didn't fully sink in for a while. Now I am just more resolved to playing more often.
I'll continue to keep playing, as I've mentioned before. I still have a ton of figures that I haven't even tried yet that are just waiting to see the tabletop.




Now I am just more resolved to playing more often.





That's the spirit!  Support the current game -- buy it and play it.  Encourage more people to get into it.  There will be another company that will come along.

Maybe you can be part of it.
www.SaveSWM.proboards.com
Logging into these forums for the first time in...well in a while. I'm bummed. I ran unofficial SWM tournaments for years when I was managing a comic book/gaming store. I brow-beat all my friends into playing Saga edition until I moved away from the lot of them. Now I haven't played minis or saga in, well in a long time. But I was always looking to get back into it. I guess I'll finally have a chance to catch up and complete my collection, but that's a very tiny silver lining.

That's a shame. Saga is still one of the best RPGs out there, IMO. Great balance of easy-of-use without the extreme combat focus of 4E.
fo diggity Twitter: www.twitter.com/fodigg Comic Books You Should Have Read: http://tinyurl.com/ycxe9l7
I'm shocked. I simply don't know what to do. I don't know whether to be enraged or sad. I've loved this game from the minute I picked it up, and now it is being just...given up ...it's  dissapointing, it's sad, it's shocking. This is such a great game.
I've seen too many mingames that were not half as good as this one. Games that were too complex, too simple, to low-quality, too high-cost. No game has captured and enraptured me like this game has. Star Wars Minis is a fantastic game. It's the reason I'm here, posting on these boards. Because I love this game.
What will happen to this game? Once it is given up upon, it may slowly die. Or it will be picked up by someone else, someone who probably won't do the amazing job WOTC has done on it. What will they take out? What will SWM lose? It's quality? It's rules? It's great pieces? The ability to listen to and support it's fans? Masters of the Force will probably be the last WOTC product I ever buy.
I would beg you, WOTC, to not give this game up, if I didn't already know how futile my suggestions are. I realize that nothing I can do will change WOTC's collective mind. Why SWM? Why has a game this high-quality been given up upon?
What will this game lose if it is given up now? What will happen to everything that should be made, that could be made? What about the pieces that could be made? The maps? The sets? The abilities? The pieces? The species? What will happen as the Star Wars universe grows, expands and develops, and SWM is not growing with it? Will the fans lose interest? What will this game lose?
I wish I could somehow convince you to change your mind about this, WOTC. However, I know the futility. I think I'll just have to be sad by myself as I see another great thing die.
This has slowly sunk in with me...My wife said to me earlier that I've been in a bad mood the last few days, and I've come to realize the bad mood started the day of the announcement.

I'll still play with all the minis and may try to re-cost/change abilities on some to try out, as well as keeping an eye out for a Players Committee that will also be doing the same thing.
Good M:TG trades with m00se, jakeh
Sigh. Somebody earlier said the writing has been on the wall for a while now, but I certainly never saw it coming. There are still SO many figures that haven't been made. I thought that the series would continue for years, and some that I had hoped for might make it in just because Wizards would be struggling to come up with new figures. Now there is no chance for various characters from the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, Arden Lynn from Masters of Teras Kasi, and more.
Now there is no chance for various characters from the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, Arden Lynn from Masters of Teras Kasi, and more.



Actually, Arden's going to be in MotF.
IMAGE(http://www.lusogamer.com/live/green/gamercard_gamerbar/EmporerDragon.png)
well it is sad that there will be no more star wars saga/miniature, wish they could have done a Gar Stazi mini. but I will still be playing both game for a long time. 
This is probably the dumbest move I've seen come out of WotC, and I've always been a pro-WotC fanboy to the point of being cheerleaderish.
Seriously, cancelling Magic the Cash Cow would be a smarter move than this one, especially since the shine has been off the Magic CCG for years now.
Looks like D&D is going to be the sole cause of me purchasing any WotC products for the forseeable future.

Maybe Mongoose can get the licence for thier Traveller rules-set.
The sycophants and EULA quoters aren't worth our time. 4E =/= Essentials; Essentials =/= 4E. To WotC/DDI: GO "SOON" YOURSELVES. Internet Rule #41. Needs moar Desu. No exceptions.
well it is sad that there will be no more star wars saga/miniature, wish they could have done a Gar Stazi mini. but I will still be playing both game for a long time. 



I see this and I think the Duros Scout from IE would probably be easily customizable into a Gar Stazi mini.
This is probably the dumbest move I've seen come out of WotC, and I've always been a pro-WotC fanboy to the point of being cheerleaderish.
Seriously, cancelling Magic the Cash Cow would be a smarter move than this one, especially since the shine has been off the Magic CCG for years now.

Not really, it actually is reasonably sensible move to focus on strengthening their core brands.  Star Wart might be popular, but WotC is entirely at the mercy of LFL.  Conversely, since WotC owns both MtG and D&D, not only is there less overhead, but they never have to worry about needing anyone else's permission just to make new product.  If WotC relied too much on Star Wars, at the expense of their in house products, they could be left without any legs to stand on if LFL ever decided to pull the license.
This is extremely saddening. The store host called me yesterday with this news and asked me to spread the word about it. It was a very hard thing to do. I do appreciate to forewarning but am still very sad.. There was so many more pieces I was looking forward to wishing for them to create as other players would agree. This is my second disappoint to have anything to do with star wars. And to make matters worse this is the third game I have really gotten into that have died on me.. I intend to keep playing and keep it going in this area, but I have a feeling it may be hard to keep some people.
Not really, it actually is reasonably sensible move to focus on strengthening their core brands.  Star Wart might be popular, but WotC is entirely at the mercy of LFL.  Conversely, since WotC owns both MtG and D&D, not only is there less overhead, but they never have to worry about needing anyone else's permission just to make new product.  If WotC relied too much on Star Wars, at the expense of their in house products, they could be left without any legs to stand on if LFL ever decided to pull the license.



We've heard this song and dance before, and it was ridiculous then as it is now. LFL has been nothing but great to WotC. It's not LFL's fault if WotC's "core brands" need shoring up.

And seriously, and with all due respect to you, how idiotic is it to abandon a licensed product line with an established name in order to try to fix an in-house set of products that are performing so poorly in the grand scheme of tabletop gaming that they require "strengthening?"

I'm not saying they should outright drop their core brands, but I can't see how cutting any amount of revenue stream is going to help them solve that problem. If anything, this is just another set of customers that they have cut loose. Why would anyone want to reward WotC by simply switching to one of those other core games?
Not to mention a licensed product that is about to get a LOT of tie in opportunities. TFU II and TOR both look to be getting a heavy product push by LFL.
And seriously, and with all due respect to you, how idiotic is it to abandon a licensed product line with an established name in order to try to fix an in-house set of products that are performing so poorly in the grand scheme of tabletop gaming that they require "strengthening?"

Not to mention a licensed product that is about to get a LOT of tie in opportunities. TFU II and TOR both look to be getting a heavy product push by LFL.

No matter how profitable or how many upcoming tie in opportunities there are, the fact remains that allowing a licensed product to form the core foundation of a business is a huge mistake.  Whether or not LFL ever would take away the license is irrelevant, the fact that they COULD is what matters.  If WotC allowed SW to become their main source revenue then they would find them selves in deep poodoo if that eventuality ever occurred, and even if LFL never intentional refused to renew, it would still put WotC in a weak bargaining position during any future contract negotiations as LFL could use the threat of effectively putting WotC out of business to leverage any fees they might desire.  Again, whether that scenario would ever play out is not the point.  It just plain bad business to let any other company be in a position where they can dictate your profit margins.

Also there's the matter of oversight.  LFL is notorious for requiring 100% approval on any licensed product, WotC can't even produce free web content without first running it past LFL.  This means that profits on SW related products by definition have a long turn around period before any profit can be made.  Time is money, and in the current economic climate WotC may have felt that they couldn't no longer afford the required approval time.

The actual licensing fee may well have been a minor concern compared to the above two issues.
    I am so sad to see this line (SWM/SWRPG Saga) end.  As a gamer first, and a Star Wars fan second, I'm sad that there won't be any more in the Star Wars name from WOTC.  In fact, having a Star Wars RPG (and minis) was the best of both worlds for me.  I could game in my favorite universe.
    I'm no great prognosticator, but I imagine that somewhere down the road another game company will do a Star Wars RPG.  It's just too popular for someone else to not pick it up.  First WEG, now WOTC, next somebody else.
    As for the miniatures game, I was hooked on that since Rebel Storm.  But, I really don't think that another company will do one.  I imagine that it takes a lot of money to do just one set of miniatures, let alone several sets, and I don't see that feasible in this economy, at this time.  Hopefully, later on, it will be feasible.
  I will continue to play, with the books and minis that I have, as SWM and Saga will be fan supported for a long time to come.
I don't know if this has been posted here and I do not feel like crawling through 27 pages of posts. but...

"Lucas Licensing continues to see miniatures, roleplaying games and card games as viable and important elements in its Star Wars licensing program, both in digital form (like the recently launched trading card game within Star Wars Galaxies), and in physical products like figures, books and cards. Keep checking StarWars.com for announcements regarding future products in this area in the coming months."

from here: www.starwars.com/games/othergames/news20...  

 Just a little ray of hope maybe.
And seriously, and with all due respect to you, how idiotic is it to abandon a licensed product line with an established name in order to try to fix an in-house set of products that are performing so poorly in the grand scheme of tabletop gaming that they require "strengthening?"

Not to mention a licensed product that is about to get a LOT of tie in opportunities. TFU II and TOR both look to be getting a heavy product push by LFL.

No matter how profitable or how many upcoming tie in opportunities there are, the fact remains that allowing a licensed product to form the core foundation of a business is a huge mistake.  Whether or not LFL ever would take away the license is irrelevant, the fact that they COULD is what matters.  If WotC allowed SW to become their main source revenue then they would find them selves in deep poodoo if that eventuality ever occurred, and even if LFL never intentional refused to renew, it would still put WotC in a weak bargaining position during any future contract negotiations as LFL could use the threat of effectively putting WotC out of business to leverage any fees they might desire.  Again, whether that scenario would ever play out is not the point.  It just plain bad business to let any other company be in a position where they can dictate your profit margins.

Also there's the matter of oversight.  LFL is notorious for requiring 100% approval on any licensed product, WotC can't even produce free web content without first running it past LFL.  This means that profits on SW related products by definition have a long turn around period before any profit can be made.  Time is money, and in the current economic climate WotC may have felt that they couldn't no longer afford the required approval time.

The actual licensing fee may well have been a minor concern compared to the above two issues.



I don't think either of them suggested that Wizos make SWM/SW RPG the core foundation of their business.  Boris and Sithborg were simply saying Wizos let go of a great product that has great appeal.  Licensing or not, Star Wars is a big name that can and will sell if properly marketed. 

Considering the amount of time Wizards wasted, I'm less inclined to point fingers in LFL's direction.  Are there hurdles when it comes to the Star Wars name?  No doubt.  But WotC simply sat on the Star Wars name.  They did little to promote their products (online or elsewhere).  I'm amazed at how some people can defend Wizos in all this.  SWM (and SW RPG) was a gold mine.  WotC, however, chose not to mine it.  They were content to leave SWM alone.  When they found that the name alone couldn't sell the product as much as they wanted, they panicked.  This, IMHO, is the culmination of that panicking.  If SWM was doing poorly (according to their standards), WotC certainly didn't do anything to address the problem. 
And seriously, and with all due respect to you, how idiotic is it to abandon a licensed product line with an established name in order to try to fix an in-house set of products that are performing so poorly in the grand scheme of tabletop gaming that they require "strengthening?"

Not to mention a licensed product that is about to get a LOT of tie in opportunities. TFU II and TOR both look to be getting a heavy product push by LFL.

No matter how profitable or how many upcoming tie in opportunities there are, the fact remains that allowing a licensed product to form the core foundation of a business is a huge mistake.  Whether or not LFL ever would take away the license is irrelevant, the fact that they COULD is what matters.  If WotC allowed SW to become their main source revenue then they would find them selves in deep poodoo if that eventuality ever occurred, and even if LFL never intentional refused to renew, it would still put WotC in a weak bargaining position during any future contract negotiations as LFL could use the threat of effectively putting WotC out of business to leverage any fees they might desire.  Again, whether that scenario would ever play out is not the point.  It just plain bad business to let any other company be in a position where they can dictate your profit margins.

Also there's the matter of oversight.  LFL is notorious for requiring 100% approval on any licensed product, WotC can't even produce free web content without first running it past LFL.  This means that profits on SW related products by definition have a long turn around period before any profit can be made.  Time is money, and in the current economic climate WotC may have felt that they couldn't no longer afford the required approval time.

The actual licensing fee may well have been a minor concern compared to the above two issues.



I don't think either of them suggested that Wizos make SWM/SW RPG the core foundation of their business.  Boris and Sithborg were simply saying Wizos let go of a great product that has great appeal.  Licensing or not, Star Wars is a big name that can and will sell if properly marketed. 

Considering the amount of time Wizards wasted, I'm less inclined to point fingers in LFL's direction.  Are there hurdles when it comes to the Star Wars name?  No doubt.  But WotC simply sat on the Star Wars name.  They did little to promote their products (online or elsewhere).  I'm amazed at how some people can defend Wizos in all this.  SWM (and SW RPG) was a gold mine.  WotC, however, chose not to mine it.  They were content to leave SWM alone.  When they found that the name alone couldn't sell the product as much as they wanted, they panicked.  This, IMHO, is the culmination of that panicking.  If SWM was doing poorly (according to their standards), WotC certainly didn't do anything to address the problem. 



i have to agree with you on that. THey could have done so much more to advertise. Look at gen con last year, they ehad banners for DND and For MAgic but notheing for star wars miniatures. I think they even Had some for Axis and Allies. The only way they had any advertisement was by word of mouth. People coming to game shops and stores and seeing people play it and wondering what it was. The could have Made a Huge Profit had they started advertising. Especially after the clone wars show started . They could have paid for an add every week and im sure it would have paid for itself.

I don't think either of them suggested that Wizos make SWM/SW RPG the core foundation of their business.  Boris and Sithborg were simply saying Wizos let go of a great product that has great appeal.  Licensing or not, Star Wars is a big name that can and will sell if properly marketed.

Maybe not stated outright, and maybe not by those particular posters, but the tone has been an underlying theme in this thread, with people blaming WotC refocusing on in-house product lines and calling MtG a sinking ship.  Truth is without such products WotC would be entirely at the mercy of license holders.  It only makes good business sense to keep thier own in-house brands alive, as the company has to be able two stand on its own two legs or else be entirely at the mercy of license holders.  Like it or not MtG is the foundation that WotC was built on and has always been one of their largest profit contributers, if that ship goes down the rest of the company isn't likely far behind.

Considering the amount of time Wizards wasted, I'm less inclined to point fingers in LFL's direction.  Are there hurdles when it comes to the Star Wars name?  No doubt.  But WotC simply sat on the Star Wars name.  They did little to promote their products (online or elsewhere).  I'm amazed at how some people can defend Wizos in all this.  SWM (and SW RPG) was a gold mine.  WotC, however, chose not to mine it.  They were content to leave SWM alone.  When they found that the name alone couldn't sell the product as much as they wanted, they panicked.  This, IMHO, is the culmination of that panicking.  If SWM was doing poorly (according to their standards), WotC certainly didn't do anything to address the problem.

I never meant to say that LFL was being intentionally malicious, everything I've ever heard implies quite the opposite, but that doesn't mean that their needs/interests paralleled those of WotC.  Even without intending to LFL has made trouble for WotC.  For example, WotC was forced to sit on the ostensibly completed Force Unleashed Campaign guide for nearly a year, just because the video game couldn't be finished on its original schedule (the minis set would have likely shared the same fate but it had already been fully produced).  Given such events, it's entirely reasonable for WotC to lack faith in upcoming tie-in products.

As for lack of advertising, I just don't see it.  So far as I could tell, WotC spent just as much time and effort promoting SWM as they did MtG and D&D, the company just doesn't have an particularly large marketing budget overall.  Furthermore as I already said, I don't think lack of sales was the major contributing factor to dropping the license, shoring up in-house brands and reducing development-to-profit turnaround were likely much great contributing factors (SW might sell itself, but the hoops one has to jump though to get it to market aren't always worth the time and effort). 

We've heard this song and dance before, and it was ridiculous then as it is now. LFL has been nothing but great to WotC. It's not LFL's fault if WotC's "core brands" need shoring up.

And seriously, and with all due respect to you, how idiotic is it to abandon a licensed product line with an established name in order to try to fix an in-house set of products that are performing so poorly in the grand scheme of tabletop gaming that they require "strengthening?"

I'm not saying they should outright drop their core brands, but I can't see how cutting any amount of revenue stream is going to help them solve that problem. If anything, this is just another set of customers that they have cut loose. Why would anyone want to reward WotC by simply switching to one of those other core games?


Totally agree.
I know people are playing D&D4, but I've been hearing from different sources that it is not doing that well.

Any problems WOTC have now are of their own making.  D&D3.5, DDM & Star Wars were popular lines that WOTC decided to end.  Were they all really doing that badly?  Considering how well Pathfinder RPG has been received I don't think so. 

I play SWM with a friend, have two gaming groups and attend a Games Club (mostly different people). Two years ago our games were all WOTC.  As of April no one I know who plays games or RPGs (including myself) will be buying from WOTC.  I'm sure there are many other groups the same and I find it hard to believe WOTC can replace that custom with new players in the same numbers.  If WOTC drop anything it should be their Marketing Dept!



I agree with Boris and Sithborg.  SW DEFINED what a brand was and still carriers with it huge revenue power based upon name alone. 

SW in no way defined branding.  That was done at the turn of the last century.  Companies like Coke defined branding.  Also Star Wars is in no way the Gold Mine or a guarantee of success that people seem to think it is.  Lets look at another industry with a similar (albeit not identical) customer base, comics.  Looking at sales for Feb 2009 the highest placed Star Wars Comic (Star Wars Legacy) was ranked in 71st place right after War of Kings Darkhawk (a comic I have never even heard of (Source Diamond Distributers).  In the PC and Consol gaming world Star Wars has had a pretty checkered history of success, I think I have attended parties with more people attending than who play Star Wars Galaxies. 

SWM is an extremely expensive product to produce in an industry that traditionally loses money or at best breaks even.  Given the economic environment I am not surprised that SWM is being retired.  What does surprise me is how long it has lasted.  To those of us who have been with this since the beginning, can you honestly say that when you bought your first pack of Rebel Storm you would be still be buying boosters in 2010.

I am not angry with WotC.  They made a game I like for longer and with a wider variety minis than I ever imagined.  I will play the game for years to come.  Even better the game will be sustained for the foreseeable future with people I trust to do a good job with it. 

To those of us who have been with this since the beginning, can you honestly say that when you bought your first pack of Rebel Storm you would be still be buying boosters in 2010.

Certainly not me.  I figured Revenge of the Sith would be the climax of popularity, and that the game would last at most two year after that, yet here we are 12 sets later (plus 1 starship set) and with 1 more set to go before it's all over.
As for lack of advertising, I just don't see it.  So far as I could tell, WotC spent just as much time and effort promoting SWM as they did MtG and D&D



This statement here clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about, and really should back out of this conversation.  I'm sorry, but that's just absolute nonesense, and has no basis in facts.

This is WotC's fault, and I am angry at them for it.  But not just this final decision.  There were many misteps along the way in terms of how they chose to support and market the game.  But those aren't really the causes of this issue either.

You are right, the culprits are WotC's other games and WotC is completely to blame for this result.  Shoring up Magic may in fact be the best thing for WotC as a company, but it is by no means the best thing for the consumers of their products.  It's yet another slap in the face of loyal customers.  Further, it's their own fault with products like Dreamblade, D&D 4.0, Magic, SWTCG and so on that caused this to happen. 

But seriously, to claim that SWMs had comparable marketing from WotC???  Who are you trying to kid???  Go back to whatever game forum you usually play in, because you clearly know nothing about SWMs.

As to the idea that SWs doesn't "sell".

It was a competitive year for boys properties, but Star Wars once again grabbed the top slot, demonstrating its enormous staying power even after 33 years. With 2009 year-end figures placing Star Wars 40% ahead of any other toy license, the Power of the Force continues to thrive, according to industry research company The NPD Group. U.S. retail toy sales for the license in 2009 exceeded $480M, supported by all-new episodes of Star Wars: The Clone Wars and a robust collector market engaged in the live-action Saga...


...2010 marks the 30th anniversary of Star Wars: Episode V The Empire Strikes Back. Celebrating the fan-favorite installment of the live-action Saga, the milestone will be commemorated with a year’s worth of intergalactic activities – including massive fan events, charity screenings, exclusive product promotions and much, much more.



newslink: finance.yahoo.com/news/STAR-WARS ... l?x=0&.v=1

@Forcepush - I would assume by "branding" he meant "modern branding" or some other term like that.  In that case, he is absolutely correct.  SWs completely changed how toys are marketed, produced, and licensed in the modern business market.  I'm sure that's what he was referring to.
I am not angry with WotC.  They made a game I like for longer and with a wider variety minis than I ever imagined.  I will play the game for years to come.  Even better the game will be sustained for the foreseeable future with people I trust to do a good job with it. 



I'm not angry with them either. I think they should be very proud that they were able to keep their SW brands going for as long as they did. They have very few other games that have lasted this long or produced as many sets. Their games are like dogs and cats, most of them die in the first year and the ones who survive that period tend to stick around for a while.

I think I said that before, but just wanted to reiterate.

@Tharag_Bocc: I'm not suggesting WotC abandon Magic or D&D. I agree, that would be a mistake. That said, I think this discussion ties into something Sparks said last month about SW brand before the announcement was made. He said, if this is the status quo for how they are going to treat SWM/RPG then its going to fail soon anyway.

I think the same thing is true for Magic and D&D. Those games ARE sinking ships, and it should be apparent to anyone who is watching what WotC has been doing with them. The repackage gimmick to bolster sales of boxes at an additional $30 a pop ABOVE MSRP, the dual-pack D&D PHB's, along with recent decisions to scale back the size of Magic sets, slot lands into packs, and reduction of the number of events they run. And don't even get me started on Magic Online (MTGO).

All of these point to struggles within the company. And is it really any surprise? Look at their employee roster. How many of those people walked in the door with nothing more on their resume´ than "I am a well-known Pro Tour Magic/DDM championship winner, or the friend of someone in those categories." Very few people at the company that I have ever met, and I've met quite a few, really have much expertise in the field of business, marketing. They are strictly game designers and players, which while important, isn't enough to run a business, especially in this economy.
This statement here clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about, and really should back out of this conversation.  I'm sorry, but that's just absolute nonesense, and has no basis in facts.

But seriously, to claim that SWMs had comparable marketing from WotC???  Who are you trying to kid???  Go back to whatever game forum you usually play in, because you clearly know nothing about SWMs.

Rude much.  Maybe I was exaggerating when I said EQUAL, but considering that Star Wars practically sells it self the amount of attention it got was certainly ADEQUATE.  There were posters in all my local comic shops and while I don't typically read gaming magazines, whenever I would pull one off the shelf to browse, I would often enough run across an add for the latest set.

You are right, the culprits are WotC's other games and WotC is completely to blame for this result.  Shoring up Magic may in fact be the best thing for WotC as a company, but it is by no means the best thing for the consumers of their products.  It's yet another slap in the face of loyal customers.  Further, it's their own fault with products like Dreamblade, D&D 4.0, Magic, SWTCG and so on that caused this to happen.

Seriously you're the one who needs to think about backing off.  It's rather apparent that you've got a rather serious chip on your shoulder over this whole issue and aren't even trying to be reasonable.  Accusing WotC of slapping their customer in the face?  That's ridiculous, if the company doesn't secure the stability of its core brands than it may have no future.  Better to disappoint a few customers now than ALL your customers later.
Maybe I was exaggerating when I said EQUAL, but considering that Star Wars practically sells it self the amount of attention it got was certainly ADEQUATE.



ROFL

That is what is known as a contradiction in terms, a paradox, a self-defeating statement. This is where common sense steps in and applies its grip. IF the product "practically sells itself," then how could it have been operating at a loss to the point the company abandoned the license? You (and I mean the generic you, not you personally) CANNOT argue both sides of the coin on this one. Either it indeed was getting, as you put it, "ADEQUATE" attention to turn a profit, or it wasn't, in which case the core brands are performing so poorly that the company can't afford the license in terms of time, effort, and possibly even money.

There were posters in all my local comic shops and while I don't typically read gaming magazines, whenever I would pull one off the shelf to browse, I would often enough run across an add for the latest set.



Posters in all your local comic shops is worth about as much as an advertisement in a newspaper emphasizing the value of reading newspapers. That's not really branching out to reach new customers or to advertise a product. Let's not forget, Hasbro owns WotC, and they don't seem to have trouble selling Star Wars toys. 

Beyond that, a handful of posters in a game/comic store does not equate to "equal" attention. The core brands get DAILY updates on this company's website. Star Wars was lucky to get updates once a month, outside of the previews for new sets which came about once a week or so, and usually started 7 to 10 days after the entire set had already shipped around the Asian continent.

Seriously you're the one who needs to think about backing off.  It's rather apparent that you've got a rather serious chip on your shoulder over this whole issue and aren't even trying to be reasonable.  Accusing WotC of slapping their customer in the face?  That's ridiculous, if the company doesn't secure the stability of its core brands than it may have no future.  Better to disappoint a few customers now than ALL your customers later.



Well, Bill has every right to be angry. And he is correct, it is a slap in the face. Securing the stability of their core brands at the expense of eliminating other games will reduce their revenue. A few customers here, a few customers there, coupled with fewer customers supporting the core brands, eventually there will be NO customers.
Honestly, I am trying to think of what they could've done better. The previews we are getting on Starwars.com should've been there years ago. The Battle of Hoth and Clone Wars Battle packs were a good idea, imo, but I think they would've done better if they had been able to piggyback on the SW Hasbro stuff instead of regulated to the gaming area, which gets less traffic (also could've been made to be more newbie friendly).

I think the loss of the league kits were the biggest kicker. Hell, make us pay for them. I know I would've gladly payed my LGS to get them for my group.
You (and I mean the generic you, not you personally) CANNOT argue both sides of the coin on this one. Either it indeed was getting, as you put it, "ADEQUATE" attention to turn a profit, or it wasn't, in which case the core brands are performing so poorly that the company can't afford the license in terms of time, effort, and possibly even money.

As I've said I don't think it was the lack of profit that was the biggest contributing factor to dropping the license.  The biggest problem with Star Wars is its long turn around period, having to get LFL approval before any product can go to print means that the time between initial development costs and final profit intake is delayed compared to their in-house brands.  Nor do I believe that the core brands are actually sinking, though there may well have been concern about over saturating the market.  There are only so many potential customer dollars and WotC might not want a licensed product self competing against their core brands.

Posters in all your local comic shops is worth about as much as an advertisement in a newspaper emphasizing the value of reading newspapers. That's not really branching out to reach new customers or to advertise a product.

Maybe not, but I haven't seen MtG or D&D getting much more than that.

The core brands get DAILY updates on this company's website. Star Wars was lucky to get updates once a month, outside of the previews for new sets which came about once a week or so, and usually started 7 to 10 days after the entire set had already shipped around the Asian continent.

This is where the requirement of LFL approval rears its ugly head.  It radically drives up the cost of producing web content, and means that articles and updates can end up held up for weeks or even months.  The website fulfills its most basic function, informing customers what products exist and what products are upcoming.

Well, Bill has every right to be angry. And he is correct, it is a slap in the face.

Being upset is understandable, I'm certainly not happy with this turn of events myself, but hurling insults is not a productive response, especially as the ship has sailed.  We aren't here discussing a possible future event, the license has already been dropped, end of story, and nothing any of us say now will change that.

I never really realized there was a star wars mini game(was playing heroclix at the time), till a friend introduced me to it. and here I am 5 years later.
I know I will still play, have at least 2 friends that are still collecting and playing,and so will I. 

Guess nows the time to pick up aurra sing, jango fett BH and the few other figs i still need since after the last set I don't see myself buying anymore boosters, it will be webshopping for me. 


We've heard this song and dance before, and it was ridiculous then as it is now. LFL has been nothing but great to WotC. It's not LFL's fault if WotC's "core brands" need shoring up.



Pretty accurate.

And seriously, and with all due respect to you, how idiotic is it to abandon a licensed product line with an established name in order to try to fix an in-house set of products that are performing so poorly in the grand scheme of tabletop gaming that they require "strengthening?"



Yep. It would be idiotic, and that's why it didn't happen for that reason. It makes no sense.

I'm not saying they should outright drop their core brands, but I can't see how cutting any amount of revenue stream is going to help them solve that problem.



Yep again. SWM barely registered within WotC. Rob was just some guy who sat off by himself working on "that star wars game" with a bit of help from others when needed. It became a bit more visible with the addition of SAGA but not my much--it was mostly freelance and part time after Chris Perkins headed up the core mechanics creation as a testbed for something more important to WotC. It's pretty telling that when SWM got to it's final stages Rob and Sarah left the company rather than "shoring up" these core brands somehow. It just doesn't make much sense if that's what was going on internally that two people who were (according to this theory) heading up a license brand that was doing well wouldn't be moved over to a core brand that was struggling if you're really "shoring up" those brands.

What I believe the real situation was is they were basically ignored (which granted isn't necessarily the best way to run a line) while the sales looked good and when the sales stopped looking good: seeya! cut costs, license end, product stop, employees go. No real thought or concern about how it affects the rest of the company because it was always it's own little island anyway.