Fireclave's Guide to 4e Race Mechanic Creation

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My concept was that , assuming you can usually deliver the boosts to all three possible targets, it's still 6 damage, assuming the attacks hit. Though the damage is not necessarily AoE, like dragon's breath is, it is still possible it could be. The damage is only a little lower than DB, but the temp hitpoints add to that, making the balance a little tenuous.

And my comment on tail sting wasn't that it was unbalanced, just that it was a little more singe-target powerful. It's really a good design (by the was is it for a scorpion race?)

@Crimson: Even normal DMs don't think like that. I can see that being really irritating.

geez.. must..... stop.... COMMENTING!
Invigorating Howl Kyan Racial Power
You let out a howl that fills your allies with otherworldly vigour.
Encounter
Minor Action Close burst 3
Effect: Up to three allies other than you within burst gain +2 bonus to their next damage roll, and gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution or Charisma modifier. Increase the bonus to +4 at level 11st and to +6 at level 21st.
Special: When you create your character, choose Constitution, or Charisma as the ability score you use for granting temporary hit points. This choice remains throughout your character’s life and does not change the power’s other effects.

While still on the strong side, it's much more balanced now. I'd consider making the temp HP aspect a paragon feat, but the game won't implode if you don't.



Battle Scales
Encounter
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: An enemy scores a critical hit against you
Effect: Turn the hit into a normal hit, and take only half-damage


Tail Sting
Encounter
Minor Action Melee attack
Attack: Strength + 2, Constitution + 2, Dexterity + 2 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Strength modifier, and the target takes ongoing damage 5 (save ends)
Miss: The target takes Strength modifier damage.


The point of the previous racial powers is much like the drow's. The character can choose to use only one during a single encounter.

Overall, I like the contrast between these two powers. Battle Scales is very, very good. Negating a crit and halfing the damage would be too good if it wasn't for the fact that it only activates on a crit. I predict some Yugioh-level trap card-chain drama with this power.

As for Tail Sting, I'm a bit up in the air with it. At first glance it seems very powerful due to the ongoing damage, but after running some number, it's not as powerful as my knee advertised.

Compare:
Greatsword Basic Attack: 2d6 + Str (chosen because I like greatsword :D)<br /> <br /> Min = 2+str<br /> Avg = 7+str<br /> Max = 12+str<br /> <br /> Tail Sting 1st round damage: 1d6+str+5<br /> Min 6+str<br /> Avg 8.5+str<br /> Max 11+str

Overall, the damage of Tail Sting not all that bad. As far as base damage is concerned, it does about as much single-target damage as one could expect to get from an optimized Half-orc Furious Assualt made with a big 2-hander.

That said, I do feel iffy about that ongoing damage. Under most circumstances, you'll probably shouldn't expect to deal more than 5 or 10 damage with the standard 45% chance of success over the course of the next couple of rounds. But even that much pushes it a bit farther ahead of any other single-target racial damage power (at Heroic tier at least).

Overall though, I think its a strong power, but not brokeningly so. Personally, I would consider making the str mod damage on a miss a racial feat, as the power holds its own nicely without.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
Ok, points noted. Thanks a lot for the feedback, Fireclave. Your advice is as really useful.
Awesome guide, thanks Magus! It helped me balance out a couple different homebrew races I have in the works.

Just one question. Would you consider this a Major or Minor ability?:

Natural Enemy: You gain +1 on all attacks against Demons and Devils.


Now, granted, Demons and Devils are somewhat common in my particular setting. However, I'm more curious about the balance of this ability in general (i.e. granting a +1 against two specific creature types).

I'm leaning toward a minor ability, since it's fairly situational. However, attack/defense bonuses don't seem to be minor abilities very often. I practically assumed there would be precedent for this (I guess I still have a 3e mindset!) but no existing races get a "racial enemy" bonus. Also, just the fact that it grants an attack bonus makes me think that perhaps it should be a major ability.
I don't think that really makes for a very good racial ability at all in 4E. Calling out specific creature types mechanically is just as bad as calling out alignment mechanically for being so abstract, arbitrarily, and specific. They both have their place, but definitely not on a PC race. I'm sure you can come up with something better and more interesting than that.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Another question on possible races: would a Thri-Kreen ever be possible? On a similar note how would you deal with races with multiple limbs? Would you allow the extra limbs, maybe treating them like permanent Mage Hands? Or would allowing them to be normal hands that could not wield weapons or shields be okay?

I ask this because with the PHB3 theme of attack from the Far Realms, which includes a heavy dose of Psionics, I was hoping to see if the Thri-Kreen could make a comeback.
It's certainly possible for the Thri-Kreen to make a comeback, but if they mechanically function like they have any more than two hands for the purposes of wielding weapon, implements, or shields, they will be broken. Period. For this reason, I'd personally prefer they not come in a PC race flavor this time around, but if they cut down the mechanical effects of the two extra hands, it may be possible. For example, if the hands can only hold items or draw and stow them for you as quicker actions, that would be acceptable.

My favorite idea so far is basically letting them draw and stow items as free actions on your turn and then otherwise having the extra arms perform the function of a Deflect Arrows encounter power, probably a bonus to AC or Reflex against a ranged attack.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Awesome guide, thanks Magus! It helped me balance out a couple different homebrew races I have in the works.

Just one question. Would you consider this a Major or Minor ability?:

Natural Enemy: You gain +1 on all attacks against Demons and Devils.


Now, granted, Demons and Devils are somewhat common in my particular setting. However, I'm more curious about the balance of this ability in general (i.e. granting a +1 against two specific creature types).

I'm leaning toward a minor ability, since it's fairly situational. However, attack/defense bonuses don't seem to be minor abilities very often. I practically assumed there would be precedent for this (I guess I still have a 3e mindset!) but no existing races get a "racial enemy" bonus. Also, just the fact that it grants an attack bonus makes me think that perhaps it should be a major ability.

First, though I'm flattered, the thanks should go to Fireclave, as this is his guide, not mine.

About the ability, I think that it fits more as a feat than a racial feature.
I don't think that really makes for a very good racial ability at all in 4E. Calling out specific creature types mechanically is just as bad as calling out alignment mechanically for being so abstract, arbitrarily, and specific. They both have their place, but definitely not on a PC race. I'm sure you can come up with something better and more interesting than that.

Probably, it's just an early draft of the race, and we modelled it loosely on the 3e equivalent.

It seems to me, though, that it's far too easy to fall into the trap of cloning another race and changing some of the minor details. This ability was an attempt to spice things up by *not* just making a re-skinned $race.

But thanks for the input! I like Magus' idea of turning this into a feat.

Also, sorry Fireclave and Magus for confusing who wrote this guide. Apparently, I can't read subject lines!
I have a question. OK ive got this race for my campaign world from back in the 2e days, and their main thing was they was resistant to magic. Converting this race to 4e has been giving me some trouble as Magic Resistance seems non-existent now. I was thinkin of makin it so that any magical attack against them would be done with two roles, using the lower of the die results, but this seems a little to powerful to me. Any suggestions?
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I have a question. OK ive got this race for my campaign world from back in the 2e days, and their main thing was they was resistant to magic. Converting this race to 4e has been giving me some trouble as Magic Resistance seems non-existent now. I was thinkin of makin it so that any magical attack against them would be done with two roles, using the lower of the die results, but this seems a little to powerful to me. Any suggestions?

This isn't going to work, and the reason it's not going to work is that you will not find a definition of "magic" in 4E that everybody agrees with. What exactly is even considered a magic attack?
You should come up with other stuff. Unless you made a race that was solely based on a particular mechanic you wanted to use and thus had only a mechanical reason to exist as a one-tick pony, you should be able to come up with plenty else about them that would be interesting enough to make into a racial feature. For example, Drow lost their Spell Resistance too, but there were still enough other interesting things about them that they didn't really need it anymore to be part of their race's identity anyways. So is your race really conceptually interesting or was it just a mechanical gimmick is the question.
I don't know enough about your race to suggest anything specific, but the best I can think of right now to maybe simulate what they used to have is to give them Variable Resistance 5 + one-half their level and have that count as their encounter power, but of course this would then still work against things that were not magical in nature, such as lava and blizzards, and you wouldn't be able to prevent that because you can't define magic.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
This isn't going to work, and the reason it's not going to work is that you will not find a definition of "magic" in 4E that everybody agrees with. What exactly is even considered a magic attack?

Thats a good question. I guess the way is see it is a magical attack would be any attack thats not martial. Although im not too sure about psionics or primal, but definatly divine. That was one of theit draw backs was that healing magic didnt work on them either. But any way the magic resistance was a main part of the race as they was basically genitically enginered in a previous age to be mage killers during this great wizard war that was going on. so i really want to keep the magic resistance thing but not sure how that would fit.

I do like the Variable Resistance idea that might be the ticket there. Thought about maybe giving them like a +4 to Wil but that seems too powerful as well.
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I guess the way is see it is a magical attack would be any attack thats not martial. Although im not too sure about psionics or primal, but definatly divine.

This makes no sense. Why exactly do they resist a Paladin's Valiant Strike? Why would they resist a Sword Mage's Luring Strike? Why would they resist a Barbarian's Howling Strike? Also, there's the little problem that monsters never have power source keywords...

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
This makes no sense. Why exactly do they resist a Paladin's Valiant Strike? Why would they resist a Sword Mage's Luring Strike? Why would they resist a Barbarian's Howling Strike? Also, there's the little problem that monsters never have power source keywords...

They would have resitence against these attacks becuase they're backed by magic. Im not sure about the barbarian though as i see the priaml source dealing with like nature spirits or what ever so im not sure if i would count that as magic.
But i see what youre saying.
And no monsters dont have power source keywords but they do have keywords such as psycic or fear that would designate those powers as magical in nature. See this is the problem im having in trying to update this race for 4e. Im not sure how to pull it off. I want to keep that magic resistance thing in there somehow. Maybe a bonus to saving throws against certain affects such as charm or maybe a bonus to defense against area effects?
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And no monsters dont have power source keywords but they do have keywords such as psycic or fear that would designate those powers as magical in nature.

Having a keyword does not necessarily make an attack magical in nature, and the magical nature of an attack is largely subjective in nature. For example, if a fire elemental-type creature attacks by throwing globs of semi-molten rock at you, is the a magical attack because it has the Fire keyword? If a githzerai pummels you with a stone-shattering barrage of strikes, is the attack magical because it has the Psychic keyword? If a dragon swoops down from the mountains and roars in your face with its fear-keyworded Frightful Presence, does it work the way it does because its magic or because its a big frickin' fire lizard that's innately skilled at intimating things many times smaller than it and oh-god-its-gonna-eat-me!

Maybe a bonus to saving throws against certain affects such as charm

Bonuses against certain effects can and has worked. For example, Eladrin have a bonus against charm effects and Kalashtar are allowed saving throws against certain debilitating status effects at the beginning of their turn rather than at the end.

Im not sure about the barbarian though as i see the priaml source dealing with like nature spirits or what ever so im not sure if i would count that as magic.

Food for thought: A Barbarian's attacks are just as primal as the Warden's, Shaman's, and Druid's. The latter being a traditional caster in past versions.



The big issue here is that while there is still a flavor distinction between magical and non-magical, the mechanical distinction between the two no longer exists. So any mechanics that attempt to play on that specific mechanical distinction will fail (because there is no distinction to play on). And relying on flavor to establish that distinction is useless because flavor is both subjective and mutable.

What you might want to do instead is repackage your race's magic resistance into something that's either more generic (applies not just to "spells") or more specific (applies to a specific attack subset used most commonly by magic users). First figure out what magic themes you want the race to be resistant to, and then design features and feats to defend against them.

For example, spellcaster and spellcaster-themed monsters tend to rely on ranged attacks and ranged AoEs. So one possible anvenue is to give your race a defensive ability that applies to those attacks. The ability could be anything from a forced reroll like the Halfling's Second Chance, temp HP, or energy resistance that can be shifted once per encounter. Alternatively, you could instead emphasis their mage-killer status with an offensive ability. Perhaps one that, for example, grants them bonuses to attack and/or damage against a creature that just hit them with one of the aforementioned attacks, or maybe some Shifter-like V-tec that kicks in when bloodied.

I think your concept can still work, but it's going to take a bit of flexible, creative re-imagining on your part to figure what how exactly it should work and what works best with your vision.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
They would have resitence against these attacks becuase they're backed by magic.

No, they're not. None of the powers I mentioned are necessarily backed by magic at all, despite having non-martial keywords. The Paladin's Valiant Strike? It's a bonus to hit for each adjacent enemy, nothing necessarily divine in nature about it. The Sword Mage's Luring Strike? That's almost exactly the same as the Fighter's Footwork Lure, nothing necessarily magical about it. The Barbarian's Howling Strike? How is "I smash stuff really hard! And I can do it during a charge!" necessarily magically backed at all?

And no monsters dont have power source keywords but they do have keywords such as psycic or fear that would designate those powers as magical in nature.

No, a specific keyword does not automatically make a power magical. Thing with the Fear keyword might just have that because it's really ****ing scary, like Fireclave's example of the dragon. The only keywords that are necessarily magical in my opinion would be Force, Necrotic, Charm, Conjuration, Illusion, Polymorph, and Teleportation. And even then you run into way too many possible exceptions.

See this is the problem im having in trying to update this race for 4e. Im not sure how to pull it off.

Again, if the race was actually more interesting than just their mechanic for resisting magic, then it should be no problem to represent other aspects of them mechanically and have that be that.

I want to keep that magic resistance thing in there somehow.

Well you're not going to be able to. I'm not sure how to make it more clear, but 4E's system just doesn't allow for a consistent definition of magic. The only way to pull it off is to limit it and say they're only resistant to certain kinds of magic. For example, a save bonus versus charm effects would make them more resistant to those but couldn't be representative of being resistant to all magic at all.

Maybe a bonus to defense against area effects?

Not all area effects are magical in nature, so this makes no sense.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Thanx guys for the input. youve given me some ideas and alot to think on. The idea worked well in 1-2e as you had the magic resistance to work with and 3e had spell resistance, but yeah 4e just doesnt have that mechanic built in there. But i guess if demon lords dont have magic resistance anymore i guess i shouldnt feel too bad that my race wont either.
I like the forced reroll idea Fireclave i might work that in there. Im also thinking of maybe a limited dispel magic ability like the wizards power, but I dont know thats what a 6th level power? With no ECLs in 4e i really need to tone some things down.
Lets see all in all they had the magic resistance, which is the part i was really having trouble with, they had a healing factor (not regeneration, they didnt grow arms back.) Im thinkin i could simulate that by giving them some extra healing surges. And they had bone claws which i would see as increasing their unarmed damage to 1d6 allowing a racial feat to boost it to 1d8. So yeah they were basically a race of magic resistant Wolverines. But they had drawbacks, first as a race they shunned armor, seeing any one who wore it as being afraid of getting hurt, They considered unarmed combat (albeit with claws) the height of military prowess so they shunned normal weapons especially ranged weapon believing that not to kill a man face to face was cowardly. They also made poor spellcasters because of their magic resistance. But 4e doesnt really use racial penalties so all this amounts to fluff now so i need to work em out so theyre not overpowerfull or anything. I dont want every player at my table goin oh im playin one of these guys.
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Fireclave, why is there nothing in your guide about avoiding natural weapons at all cost? Because it seems like every other homebrew race wants to have natural weapons in the form of at-will attack powers or an unarmed attack enhancement even though they're completely inappropriate...

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Fireclave, why is there nothing in your guide about avoiding natural weapons at all cost? Because it seems like every other homebrew race wants to have natural weapons in the form of at-will attack powers or an unarmed attack enhancement even though they're completely inappropriate...

On this point I disagree. Perhaps is my personal bias speaking but I like the idea of races having natural weapons or natural weapon-theme abilities and powers. There's something satisfying about tearing into your foes with nothing but your own power, forgoing the crutches that are necessary to every other warrior. It's one of the reasons people of drawn to the monk class, and one of the reasons why many were drawn to monstrous races in previous editions.

That is assuming, of course, that racial weapons are done in a manner that's both balanced and thematically appropriate; just like any other racial feature.

However, I'll also admit that I'm not as active on the homebrew forums as you are, so I've probably have not seen as many badly implemented natural weapon mechanics as you have.

Perhaps your issue is not with natural weapons per se, but rather with the idea natural weapons that are too liberally handed out; where having sharp nails automatically justifies the race qualifying a race for built-in set of Ginsu where other races of comparable keratin structures do not. If so, then that's more of an issue of preference than one of mechanics. But now I'm just conjecturing.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
Fireclave, why is there nothing in your guide about avoiding natural weapons at all cost? Because it seems like every other homebrew race wants to have natural weapons in the form of at-will attack powers or an unarmed attack enhancement even though they're completely inappropriate...

So what are you saying? that minotaurs shouldnt have horns?, i mean if a race has claws or hooves or horns or what ever they should be able to do something with that a little better than 1d4 unarmed i mean really whats wrong with natural weapons?
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Crimson Concerto doesn't like natural weapons because in 4e races are supposed to do fairly good in any class they pick, and a natural weapon would be then a worthless racial feature to many non-melee classes. Or so I think.
Perhaps is my personal bias speaking but I like the idea of races having natural weapons or natural weapon-theme abilities and powers.

Natural weapon themed abilities and powers are fine, but it's possible for them to be done in a way that's not overpowered, not completely useless, not completely nonsensical, and not totally contrary to the game's racial design goals.

That is assuming, of course, that racial weapons are done in a manner that's both balanced and thematically appropriate; just like any other racial feature.

That's the problem. The vast majority of the time they're done, they're not balance, and they're not thematically appropriate.

At-will attack powers are a terrible idea. If they're standard action attack powers, they become just as bad as the current Minotaur racial encounter power, channeling the race into a melee class and role or else have a useless racial power because your standard action is supposed to be what you use in order to fulfill your class and party role. If they're at-will minor action attack powers, then that's just overpowered.

As for unarmed attack improvement, etc., they're usually completely useless because they can't be enchanted like other weapons can, and somebody allows unarmed attacks to be enchanted, then it's still inappropriate because it again becomes the kind of racial benefit like the Half-Orc's Swift Charge that's great for melee weapon classes and roles but completely useless to everybody else, and that's bad design.

And then of course you run into logical inconsistencies with existing races. Why exactly do you get an better unarmed attack than a Razor-Claw Shifter? Why do you get an at-will attack power when the Minotaur and his powerful horns do not? Why are your teeth significant enough for mechanical representation when the Dragonborn get nothing for their obviously superior dentures?

This doesn't all mean that natural attacks can't be done. It just means that at-will attack powers and unarmed attack enhancements are an inappropriate way to do them. A minor action encounter attack power should be more than plenty. Anything more than that should be accomplished via feats or some other method that doesn't require a character to have completely useless racial features or powers.

So what are you saying? that minotaurs shouldnt have horns?

Absolutely not. Check my sig to see that I very much want Minotaur to keep their horns and a reasonable way to use them. However, an unarmed attack enhancement isn't the appropriate way to do it, an at-will attack power isn't the appropriate way to do it, and a standard action encounter power isn't the appropriate way to do it.

i mean if a race has claws or hooves or horns or what ever they should be able to do something with that a little better than 1d4 unarmed i mean really whats wrong with natural weapons?

I've explained that above. Nothing wrong with it per se, but there is definitely something wrong with a lot of the consequences. Make your superior unarmed attacks a racial feat instead of a base part of the race, and it's all golden. That way it's not dead weight to characters that can't at all make use of it. Problem solved.
Either that or make it a minor action encounter power.

Crimson Concerto doesn't like natural weapons because in 4e races are supposed to do fairly good in any class they pick, and a natural weapon would be then a worthless racial feature to many non-melee classes. Or so I think.

That's the simple version, yes.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I think I have seen this idea on the boards before but I like the idea of a multi-class feat like the Blowgun training or Bola training to handle fighting with claws. It would be called “Claw Fighting” or something and be a feat that clawed races could take, like Razor-claw Shifters, Gnolls, or Lizardfolks. The initial feat would stat out the claws as weapons and later feats would represent cool claw fighting powers that you could incorporate into your character like the pre mentioned multi-class feats.
Right i see what you're saying Crimson Concerto. Natural weapons would be kinda usless especially after you get a +5 bastard sword or whatever, but still it could come in handy if you lose your sword for whatever reason. I really want claws on the race and i want some game mechanic in there to reflect that. If it proves to be pretty much usless in most circumstances thats fine by me al long as im not over powering the race. Of course i dont want to lay a bunch of useless powers/abilities on them either.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
I think I have seen this idea on the boards before but I like the idea of a multi-class feat like the Blowgun training or Bola training to handle fighting with claws.

That does sound kinda cool ShadowGuard but im not sure about the multi-class bit. Im not exactly crazy over the Multi Class rules. Really kinda limits you. No more thief/fighter /magic-user, but i guess that was the point.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
No more thief/fighter /magic-user

This is in zero ways true. There are multiple ways to make a thief/fighter/magic-user. What are you talking about?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
At-will attack powers are a terrible idea. If they're standard action attack powers, they become just as bad as the current Minotaur racial encounter power, channeling the race into a melee class and role or else have a useless racial power because your standard action is supposed to be what you use in order to fulfill your class and party role. If they're at-will minor action attack powers, then that's just overpowered.

For the most part I agree with this. An at-will natural attack power as part of a race's stat block would definitely not be the way to go (but see below*).

As for unarmed attack improvement, etc., they're usually completely useless because they can't be enchanted like other weapons can, and somebody allows unarmed attacks to be enchanted, then it's still inappropriate because it again becomes the kind of racial benefit like the Half-Orc's Swift Charge that's great for melee weapon classes and roles but completely useless to everybody else, and that's bad design.

But disagree with this. I think unarmed attack improvements are a good way of implementing natural weapons.

First, I see no reason why natural weapons can't be enchanted. I don't have a DDi account, but from what I hear, monks' unarmed strikes can be enchanted. I see no reason why other natural weapons cannot.

As for the universal usability issue, the answer to that is simple. Make natural weapons a racial feat instead of a default racial feature. Melee oriented members of the race can choose take it while non-melee members can take other feats.

This is, in fact, the approach I intend to take with a couple of my own races. I figure it will work if I make natural weapons a feat, and make said feat equivalent to a Superior Weapon feat so that in either case you're spending a feat to access to a new weapon that's worth the investment. And aside from the base cost of a manufactured weapon, they will cost the same as well.

*Though technically, with this approach, you are making natural weapons an at-will power. At the very least, your melee basic attack becomes a natural weapon attack, and if you're a melee character with melee at wills...

And then of course you run into logical inconsistencies with existing races. Why exactly do you get an better unarmed attack than a Razor-Claw Shifter? Why do you get an at-will attack power when the Minotaur and his powerful horns do not? Why are your teeth significant enough for mechanical representation when the Dragonborn get nothing for their obviously superior dentures?

Such inconsistencies are a matter of flavor and willing to suspend disbelief. The simplest answer for why a race's claws are sharper than a Razor-Claw Shifter's or bites stronger than a Dragonborn's is because they simply are. Race's X claws really are sharper, stronger, and, perhaps most importantly, made of something that can endure repeated use as a weaponthat will be utilized against anything from as weak as flesh and as tough as metal without threat of causing self injury. A creature with a weaponized bite might not only have chomps strong enough to crunch through metal on a daily basis, but jaw muscles like a croc to exert enormous pressure for their size and perhaps their teeth replace themselves regularly like a sharks.

A second simple explanation is that they had to hone their existing appendages through training in order weaponize them, much in the same way monks have to hone their unarmed strikes. The amount of training my be reduced due to their natural appendages being almost tough enough to see serious combat use, but additional training is needed all the same.

You could always say that Race X's natural weapon are inherently magical. Plenty of critters in 3e had innately magical natural weapons for the purpose of defeating damage reduction. It's a simple matter of applying the same concept here, but instead of being magic enough to defeat DR, they're magic enough to be used as a weapon.

Or you could always suspend disbelief and simply ignore the flavor issue. Race X has a natural weapon because its cool; Dragonborn don't because they already have plenty of abilities as is and don't need any more.

But the exact explanation, along with addressing or ignoring whatever inconsistencies or breaks in verisimilitude crop up, is the responsibility of the race's creator (though such logical inconsistency need not exist at all if you let other theme-appropriate races acquire natural weapons as well).
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
I'd like some feedback on two Racial Powers I'm fiddling around with now, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. Here's the first (Race Names replaced with ~ for now):

~ Mobility
~ Racial Power

You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger:
You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.

And the second:


Flight of Fancy
~ Racial Power
Leaping into the air to shake off a foe, you come down a short distance away and shrug off a debilitating effect.
Encounter
Move Action
Personal
Effect:
You can fly up to 3 squares before the end of your next turn. Make a saving throw at the end of that movement.

I was debating whether or not to add "This movement does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity". Thoughts?

I think they seem pretty balanced and useful for most classes, but I'd like some second opinions.
I love power. But it is as an artist that I love it. I love it as a musician loves his violin, to draw out its sounds and chords and harmonies... - Napoleon Bonaparte
This is in zero ways true. There are multiple ways to make a thief/fighter/magic-user. What are you talking about?

The multi-class feat limits you to one class. Unless you are a bard. What are you talkin about?
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
I'd like some feedback on two Racial Powers I'm fiddling around with now, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. Here's the first (Race Names replaced with ~ for now):

~ Mobility
~ Racial Power

You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger:
You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.

And the second:


Flight of Fancy
~ Racial Power
Leaping into the air to shake off a foe, you come down a short distance away and shrug off a debilitating effect.
Encounter
Move Action
Personal
Effect:
You can fly up to 3 squares before the end of your next turn. Make a saving throw at the end of that movement.

I was debating whether or not to add "This movement does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity". Thoughts?

I think they seem pretty balanced and useful for most classes, but I'd like some second opinions.

I get the second one for like a winged race or something, but the first one seem like it could be a standard class power instead of a racial ability. but then i dont know the race so it might fit in there. They seem pretty balanced to me but thats just my opinion.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
As for the universal usability issue, the answer to that is simple. Make natural weapons a racial feat instead of a default racial feature. Melee oriented members of the race can choose take it while non-melee members can take other feats.

I already agree with this solution 100%. :D

Also, damn you for linking to TVtropes!
There goes a couple of hours of my life... :P

The multi-class feat limits you to one class. Unless you are a bard. What are you talkin about?

The fact that you don't need to multiclass into a class in order to identify your character as a member of it. If my Fighter has a high DEX, uses lighter armor, and picks up skill training in Thievery, he can self-identify as a Rogue, and doing so is completely correct. If my Rogue picks up Arcane or Religion skills and takes the Ritual Caster feat, he can very much identify himself as a mage or Wizard, and doing so is completely correct. If my Wizard pumps up its STR and CON score to gain proficiency with heavier armor and make himself competent at fighting with his staff, he can very much identify himself as a Fighter, and doing so is completely correct.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I'd like some feedback on two Racial Powers I'm fiddling around with now, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. Here's the first (Race Names replaced with ~ for now):

~ Mobility
~ Racial Power

You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger:
You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.

Personally, I wouldn't scale the attack bonus so high. Unlike damage, attack bonuses scale well. A +2 bonus to hit, for example will always be a +10% overall increase in accuracy from 1st to 30th, which is one of the reasons Combat Advantage is always useful to get. And compared to 3e, if you're familiar with that system, even the smallest bonus to hit means alot more in 4e due to how the math scales.

That's not so say I think the power is unbalanced, because honestly I'm not sure. But that +6 bonus to hit at epic especially is undoubtedly a very strong bonus. Though unfortunately, I have neither the time nor patients to do the math to see just how it is in comparison to other abilities.



And the second:

Flight of Fancy
~ Racial Power
Leaping into the air to shake off a foe, you come down a short distance away and shrug off a debilitating effect.
Encounter
Move Action
Personal
Effect:
You can fly up to 3 squares before the end of your next turn. Make a saving throw at the end of that movement.

I was debating whether or not to add "This movement does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity". Thoughts?

Seems okay to me, though it feels like it could use a boost. I say add the no-OA clause (or at least a bonus agains OA's). You're spending a move action to, most likely, move less distance than you could with a normal move action. So the power likely useless until you need to make a saving through. And as it seems that the theme of the power is to get the heck outta Dodge when crap happens, being able to do so without risking further injury seems appropriate.

The multi-class feat limits you to one class. Unless you are a bard. What are you talkin about?

fighter - Flavor-wise, any character that dishes it out in melee. This can be done easily by choosing a base or secondary class that's melee or semi-melee oriented. Can also be done by taking feats like Melee Training or Sorcerous Channeling, so class multiclassing is not required.

thief - Flavor-wise, any character that skilled in getting into where he's not wanted and jacking your stuff. Stealing stuff is not class specific. Arguably, you don't even need training in any specific skills or have any specific abilities to pull this off (a honeyed tongue, some muscle, a distraction, and/or a reliable get-a-away works just as well). Though having training in the traditional thief skill set (Thievery and Stealth) tends to help.

Since this achetype is dependent on having the necessary skills and not a specific class (IOW, you do not need to be a Rogue) one only needs training in the proper skill sets (Thievery is ).

mage - Flavor-wise, any character that's knows how to hax physics. While this achetype is typically achieved by taking a implement-based class, since Rituals are magic and are available to everyone, this archetype is not class based.

Examples of (very simple) fighter/mage/theif builds

Dex/Cha Rogue/Warlock

Str/Dex Spear Fighter/Rogue
+ Skill Training Thievery
+ Skill Training Arcana
+ Ritual Caster

Warlock (any build)
+ Eldritch Strike at-will
*Thievery is a class skill for warlocks

Cha/Dex Sorcerer
+ Sorcerous Channeling
+ Skill Training (Thievery)

Wis/Dex Druid
+Skill Training Stealth
+Skill Training Thievery


This is not even trying.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
Also, damn you for linking to TVtropes!
There goes a couple of hours of my life... :P

My apologies. It's a bad habit I've picked up. I really should put a warning label in my sig :D
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
I'd like some feedback on two Racial Powers I'm fiddling around with now, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. Here's the first (Race Names replaced with ~ for now):

~ Mobility
~ Racial Power

You dance around your opponent, harrying your foe while you press your attack.
Encounter – Martial
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger:
You deal damage to an opponent
Effect: You shift 1 square in any direction and gain a +2 bonus to Attack rolls made against the opponent you just damaged until the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.

There's a problem with this power. You can't take immediate actions in your turn, and you can only take only one immediate action per turn (in case you wanted to use it after another immediate action, like a readied action, which would be a logical choice). Therefore, you are limited to the use only after an opportunity attack, and that's a bit limiting. You might want to chance the type of action to free action, and put as prerequisites: "you must have dealt damage to an opponent this turn", or something like that.
I get the second one for like a winged race or something, but the first one seem like it could be a standard class power instead of a racial ability. but then i dont know the race so it might fit in there. They seem pretty balanced to me but thats just my opinion.

They both fit thematically with their respective races (at least, I hope they do), so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Personally, I wouldn't scale the attack bonus so high. Unlike damage, attack bonuses scale well. A +2 bonus to hit, for example will always be a +10% overall increase in accuracy from 1st to 30th, which is one of the reasons Combat Advantage is always useful to get. And compared to 3e, if you're familiar with that system, even the smallest bonus to hit means alot more in 4e due to how the math scales.

That's not so say I think the power is unbalanced, because honestly I'm not sure. But that +6 bonus to hit at epic especially is undoubtedly a very strong bonus. Though unfortunately, I have neither the time nor patients to do the math to see just how it is in comparison to other abilities.

Hmm... I may drop that +6 and make it a static +2 at all levels, or possibly remove the +4 at 11th and move it over to 21st level. Still a bit strong, but at least less overpowering. Thanks for the feedback!

Seems okay to me, though it feels like it could use a boost. I say add the no-OA clause (or at least a bonus agains OA's). You're spending a move action to, most likely, move less distance than you could with a normal move action. So the power likely useless until you need to make a saving through. And as it seems that the theme of the power is to get the heck outta Dodge when crap happens, being able to do so without risking further injury seems appropriate.

I'll be adding the No OA clause, which wasn't added earlier mainly because I was worried about its balance. I've also got a couple feats in the works that would help with the range of this skill to make it more useful.

There's a problem with this power. You can't take immediate actions in your turn, and you can only take only one immediate action per turn (in case you wanted to use it after another immediate action, like a readied action, which would be a logical choice). Therefore, you are limited to the use only after an opportunity attack, and that's a bit limiting. You might want to chance the type of action to free action, and put as prerequisites: "you must have dealt damage to an opponent this turn", or something like that.

Thanks for catching that. I'll get around to fixing it as I mess around with the powers a bit more.

While I work more on my racials, here are soms stripped down versions of the 2 races:
Race 1
~
Lithe prowlers of primordial forests
Deadly warriors by any measure

Racial Traits
Average Height: 6’0” – 6’6”
Average Weight: 140 lbs – 165 lbs

Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 Squares
Vision: Low-Light Vision
Languages: Common, ~
Skill Bonuses: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Nature

~ Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the Rapier.
Thrill of the Hunt: You gain a +1 bonus to Damage rolls when bloodied.
Wild Sense: You have a +2 bonus to Initiative.
~ Mobility: You have the ~ Mobility power.

Superb hunters and deadly close-combat fighters, ~ are an insular race hailing from the heart of the world’s few remaining primordial forests. From time immemorial the ~ have been guardians of nature, watching over and defending their native forests with unmatched ferocity. ~ believe that other races have lost their way and have sunk down into depravity, severing their connection with the natural world; for this reason, this race of humanoids has remained cut off from the outer world, preferring to live among their own kind and spend their days wandering among the shadowed pathways of their ancient forest homes.

Play a ~ if you want…
- To play a race that respects and defends the forest and nature with unmatched zeal.
- To denounce society as it is and return to a more primal era.
- To be a member of a race that favors the Ranger, Druid, Shaman, and Avenger classes.
Race 2
~
Quirky and somewhat unstable beings
Their strange appearance belies an uncanny intelligence

Racial Traits
Average Height: 2’10” – 3’3”
Average Weight: 30 lbs – 55 lbs

Ability Scores: +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, ~, and choice of one other language.
Skill Bonuses: +2 Arcana, +2 Bluff

Fey Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Fey wild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
~ Ingenuity: You may halve the time it takes to cast a ritual or use an alchemical formula. All other aspects of the ritual or alchemical formula remain the same.
Flight of Fancy: You have the Flight of Fancy power

An odd race of beings, ~ are a strange sight indeed. Do not make the mistake of underestimating a ~, however, as the resourcefulness of these denizens of the Fey wild is legendary among other races. A race of tinkers and generally ingenious (and at the same time ingenuous) little fey, the ~ race is also known for their congeniality and ease of making friends among a wide variety of races, which is pretty useful when most people you meet are so much larger than you. The ~, surprisingly, have no ancestral homeland to call their own; rather, they wander the Fey Wild and other parts nomadically, their settlements moving with surprising rapidity over large areas of territory. It is this particular wanderlust that has made the ~ into the race of wandering connoisseurs they have become, sampling the ideas and cultures of whatever races they may meet and incorporating whatever they may like into their own philosophies.

Play a ~ if you want…
- To play a race that loves learning and exploring new places.
- To meet new people and be multi-cultural.
- To be a member of a race that favors the Artificer, Bard, and Warlock classes.
I edited out most appearance info, as I'm doing a full racial writeup on them, but here's what I've got so far other than that. I think the second race needs the most help (Racial bonus-wise), as they seem a bit under-developed right now. The first race could also use some TLC, but I'm fine with it for now as I don't see anything too glaringly bad.
I love power. But it is as an artist that I love it. I love it as a musician loves his violin, to draw out its sounds and chords and harmonies... - Napoleon Bonaparte
Ok, I'm no expert, but at first sight I believe Race 1 has too many abilities. Unlike other races that give proficiency with weapons, you're giving a free proficiency with a superior weapon, and I think that's too much.

Though, you better wait and see what the experts say.
Hey its me again, the guy who wants the magic resistant race. OK ive been thinkin about this and it occurs to me that most spells cause some sort of energy damage, now i dont want to give the race resistance to every imaginable energy type so i was thinkin of this
Reactive Defense
Itd be an encounter power triggered by whenever you get hit with an energy attack, you would then get like resist 5 to that particular damage type until the end of the encounter.
what do ya think sound ok?
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
I actually already addressed that idea.
I don't know enough about your race to suggest anything specific, but the best I can think of right now to maybe simulate what they used to have is to give them Variable Resistance 5 + one-half their level and have that count as their encounter power, but of course this would then still work against things that were not magical in nature, such as lava and blizzards, and you wouldn't be able to prevent that because you can't define magic.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I actually already addressed that idea.

so you did. I must of totally missed that part my bad.
So i take it then that your cool with the idea (seeing as how it was your idea to begin with). I like adding in the half-level part, i was thinking of scaleing by tier buy i like 1/2 level better. It works for me, even if it also applies to non magical as well. Thanks for the suggestion i think this IS the way to go.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Would you consider acting as an at-will light source to be a major ability, or a minor one? It has a definite mechanical advantage, but the value of this advantage seems debatable.