Consolidated Binder Handbook

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Thank you all for the great information.

So the consensus seems to be take two levels of Sword Sage or drop it totally.

The experience penalty is going to be a huge issue given the nature of my DM. I'm reading the wording for Anthropomorphic Characters and it says "Preferred" not "Favored" and the wording leaves it open ended for which class they can be given their diet. Also their "Type" is monstrous humanoid not animal if I read the description correctly. So my question is: Is the Ape really worth all the hassle or go with Human?

I'll parse through the posts later when I have time to think.

Thanks again.

Siby

2 levels for +12 bonus on stat, +3 AC, 3 natural attacks, Climb speed. It's fun also to play it. Be a monkey shaman like the one in Lion King movie....

For level after 12, just take some prestige class :

- Mage Slayer
- Shadow Sun Ninja
- Blood Claw Master
- Be dragonborn (Race of Dragon) and take fighter levels (favored class for dragonborn)
- Dragon Devotee, another boosting attribute class
- Uncanny Trickster, and by this way, you could improve your binding wiht the "+1 of existing class feature"
- Battle Trickster
- Take 3 levels of Swashbuckler (DEX+INT to damage)
- Exotic Weapon master (Whirlwind at 10' with a spiked chain with tricks)
- Dragon Lord
- Beastmaster or Beast Heart Adept

There' a lot of option, not some with extra ordinary optimisation, but your character is good enough.
Hi everybody,

Here is what I've come up with after your advice.

Ape 2/Sword Sage 2/ Binder 11/ Knight of the Sacred Seal 5

Flaw: Inattentive (-4 on Listen/Spot checks)

Progression:
ECL Class Feats Special
1 Ape-1 Improved Initiative, Improved Binding, [Alertness], [Toughness]
2 Ape-2
3 Swordsage-1 Adaptive Style, [Weap. Focus]
4 Swordsage-2 [Ignore Special Requirement] Wisdom Mod to AC
5 Binder-1
6 Binder-2 Power Attack Pact Augmentation (+2 Initiative), 2nd level Vestiges (Malphas mostly) 1d6 sudden strike
7 Binder-3 [Weap. Finesse] 3rd level Vestiges: Paimon
8 Binder-4
9 Binder-5 Neraph Charge
10 Binder-6
11 Binder-7
12 Binder-8
13 Binder-9
14 Binder-10
15 Binder-11
16 Binder-12/KoSS
17 Binder-13/KoSS
18 Binder-14/KoSS
19 Binder-15/KoSS
20 Binder-16/KoSS

Stances:
3rd Initiator level: Assassin’s Stance - +2d6 sneak attack
3rd Initiator level: Leaping Dragon Stance - +10 on Jump checks

Maneuvers:
1. Searing Charge [DW, Strike]: 30 perfect fly, +5d6 fire damage.
2. Burning Blade [DW, Boost]: 1d6 +4
3. Fire Riposte [DW, Counter]: 4d6 fire damage when opponent hits you.
4. Death From Above [TC, Strike]: Adjacent to foe, DC 20 Jump check, +4d6 damage, foe is flat-footed against this attack.
5. Soaring Raptor Strike [TC, Strike]: +4 Attack, +6d6 damage to larger creatures than me.

Combos:
Death From Above (TC4, M) + Assassin's Stance (SH3, S) + Malphas (Andromalius @ 3rd lvl) Bind

I'm not sure if I need Neraph Charge given I have Searing Charge and other ways to make foes flat-footed.

Weapons and Armor:
What weapons and armor should I be thinking about? I'm thinking that Medium or Light armor and either a rapier or shortsword.
I was also thinking of taking TWF and ITWF in the place of Power Attack and Neraph Charge.

Since there is already a heavy fighter, rogue, monk, cleric, and ranger in the group I see my role being more of a fill in and utility type.

Anyway, let me know what you think. Also I must thank LucRivNor for posting the original build with the Ape and inspiring me to delve into it further. And thanks to Jameswilliamogle and everyone else for their input.

Siby
bump, and added some stuff to the Tales from the Trenches: Binder in Action section, which I had to move due to length.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but Tenebrous gives you the ability to do some pretty unfair things.

After all, it gives you potentially LIMITLESS uses of turn/rebuke, only limited by how often you use it!

In other words, you can use it to fuel divine feats. Some of my favorites include:

Sacred Healing (Complete Divine): Give your party fast healing 3. All day.

Divine Vigor (Complete Warrior): +10 feet of speed and +2 HP/level with one use of turn/rebuke - and it lasts for 10 rounds. Re-cast often. Enjoy!

Sacred Vengeance (CW): Spend a turn attempt as a free action to add 2d6 damage vs. undead for a round. Use with natural attacks and pounce. Laugh.

Glorious Weapons (Complete Divine): Give your party's weapon an alignment.

Divine Might (CW): This one's particularly nice on a Binder. Spend a free turn attempt to add Cha mod to melee damage for a round. You can only do it once per 5 rounds, but with the Cha mod you'll be swinging it'll be worth it!

Divine Shield (CW): Add Cha bonus to shield's AC for 1/2 your CL in rounds. Takes a standard action, but hey - with a Cha of say, 30 or so, you've got a hefty +10 AC for 10 rounds at 20th level! Hooah!

I'm sure there are some I'm missing, but this is a nice starter list. Is it just me, or had anyone else noticed this? I particularly like making the Binder a sort-of "ultimate party healer" with just one feat - Sacred Healing. Yowsa.

As a level dip, Rogue 3 has new significance with the introduction of Dungeonscape's Penetrating Strike 3rd level Rogue substitution. With 3 levels of Rogue, you now deal 1/2 sneak attack damage to targets that would normally be immune!
Hmmm, got a couple builds here copied out of my "Demonstration of Class Equality" thread. These characters are specifically designed to fight a certain way, mind you, so their strategies have holes. That doesn't reduce their effectiveness much, though.

Anti-Caster:
(Agares, Eligor, Tenebrous, and Ronove)
Put all your Pact Augmentation points into raising your initiative score and take improved initiative. Congrats, you now have a +14 (at least) bonus to initiative rolls. Use that advantage to strike first by moving within 30 ft of an enemy and summon Agares' earth elemental, and command the elemental to grapple any wizard, cleric, druid, etc. that's giving you trouble.

The Elemental grapples, pins, and covers the caster's mouth to prevent any spells coming out. Then the binder moves in and gradually punches the caster to death, using Eligor's and Tenebrous' elemental strikes to deal extra damage.

Indestructible Nuker: (Savnok, Orthos, Amon, and Focalor)
Call up Savnok's magic armor, activate displacement, and you're good to go! Use Orthos', Amon's, and Focalor's breath attacks and lightning strikes tyo obliterate any enemy in your path, and use your off-turns to get far enough away from combat that no one will hurt you, or defend.

Unhittable Nuker: (Savnok, Orthos, Amon, and Tenebrous)
Call up Savnok's Armor, Orthos' displacement, and use Tenebrous' Deeper Darkness power to make sure no one can see you. Cast Tenebrous' Flicker. Then you can move around the battlefield, hiding in your DD zone while you use Orthos' and Amon's breath weapons and any other attacks you care to use, and flicker away if anyone takes a shot at you. Flicker, DD, and displacement each grant you a seperate 50% miss chance for attacks, so let them just try to strike you down.
Let's add the Hide in Plain Sight-er:

Tenebrous, Marchiosas.

This one's very simple. Get the Darkstalker feat from Lords of Madness. Take at least one level of Rogue and the all-time best feat EVER, Able Learner. Put max ranks in Hide and Move Silently.

Use Deeper Darkness from Tenebrous and Marchiosas's +16 to Hide and Move Silently. You can now hide and take full actions at only a total of -4 to your base roll - and you won't be seen unless the enemy can see in magical darkness.

Enjoy!
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but Tenebrous gives you the ability to do some pretty unfair things.
...

I'm sure there are some I'm missing, but this is a nice starter list. Is it just me, or had anyone else noticed this? I particularly like making the Binder a sort-of "ultimate party healer" with just one feat - Sacred Healing. Yowsa.

As a level dip, Rogue 3 has new significance with the introduction of Dungeonscape's Penetrating Strike 3rd level Rogue substitution. With 3 levels of Rogue, you now deal 1/2 sneak attack damage to targets that would normally be immune!

The unlimited Turns has been mentioned before. See this, though: http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php%3Fp%3D11326619%26postcount%3D181

Also, w/ the 3 Binders I've played so far, I haven't met a DM that would allow temporary abilities qualify me for feats (there's always the Cleric 1 dip, though...).

Dungeonscape did add a bit to the binder, potentially. On top of the Rogue 3 dip, the Ranger 1 / Able Learner variant also adds a bit. The Barbarian variants, too, since Survival gets a bump from Buer.

The Tenebrous thing is interesting... I thought that it said you can't hide in it like all the other unlimited darkness class abilities, but I was wrong... I'll definitely add that combo (that's wicked good w/ March., too).



@Prator: Could you post a link to that thread? I'm not familiar w/ it.

The Anti-Caster works better w/ Zagan: Grapple the caster yourself, then use aversion on the meaty types so they can't get in there with you. Also, you still get to use your Su powers while grappling, which could mean summon the earth elemental anyways.

Also, Tenebrous's Flicker ability is usable only a really limited number of times per day; its not too reliable (it is a nice bonus on top of the DD effect, though). DD is only 20%, but it still is nice.

The 4-vestige combos are a little much, imo: waiting till 20th level just to get them is very academic, considering there's no Epic Binder support currently.
Anti-Caster: Chances are the average earth elemental has a higher strength score than the binder, even when you factor in the benefits of imrpoved grapple. Plus, the higher level you are, the bigger the elemental gets, and the more powerful it becomes (not to mention the size bonus to grapple checks). The Huge earth elemental at level 20 is something I'd bet on in a grapple against almost anything.

Tenebrous' flicker, while usable a limited number of times per day, lasts a number of rounds equal to your binder level. You'd have to be a lvl 20 binder to pull off the build I described above, and by that level, you get 3 uses per day at 20 rounds each. 60 rounds of Flicker doesn't sound too bad to me.

In any case, they're just ideas. There are 4-vestige combos on the lists already, so I thought I'd bring these up for scrutinu.

Here's the Demonstration Link. It's just a thread I started, hoping to show people how all classes are (roughly) equal because any given class has a weakness that some other given class can easily exploit.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=799715
The unlimited Turns has been mentioned before. See this, though: http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php%3Fp%3D11326619%26postcount%3D181

Also, w/ the 3 Binders I've played so far, I haven't met a DM that would allow temporary abilities qualify me for feats (there's always the Cleric 1 dip, though...).

Dungeonscape did add a bit to the binder, potentially. On top of the Rogue 3 dip, the Ranger 1 / Able Learner variant also adds a bit. The Barbarian variants, too, since Survival gets a bump from Buer.

The Tenebrous thing is interesting... I thought that it said you can't hide in it like all the other unlimited darkness class abilities, but I was wrong... I'll definitely add that combo (that's wicked good w/ March., too).

@Prator: Could you post a link to that thread? I'm not familiar w/ it.

The Anti-Caster works better w/ Zagan: Grapple the caster yourself, then use aversion on the meaty types so they can't get in there with you. Also, you still get to use your Su powers while grappling, which could mean summon the earth elemental anyways.

Also, Tenebrous's Flicker ability is usable only a really limited number of times per day; its not too reliable (it is a nice bonus on top of the DD effect, though). DD is only 20%, but it still is nice.

The 4-vestige combos are a little much, imo: waiting till 20th level just to get them is very academic, considering there's no Epic Binder support currently.

Whether you've had DMs allow it or not, it's a fact: if you have access to the ability, you're qualified for feats dependent on it. Hell, access to SPELLS qualifies you for certain feats - if you can get Enlarge Person (be it from a spell, a potion, a wand, etc.), you qualify for Knockback (which requires you to be large size).

The CustServ answer is about the least specific, fluffy answer you could ask for. Yes, you should always remember that the DM sets the style of play. However, according to the rules (and this was introduced back in Complete Warrior, I believe), you can qualify for feats with prerequisite abilities if you have the means to meet the prerequisites - even if the effect is not permanent.

This is how people polymorph themselves into beholders to use the beholder mage class. First cast Polymorph Any Object to gain the right type, then again to polymorph yourself permanently.

Granted, you can't use a feat if you don't currently have the effect in question. Still, I think that CustServ response was a pretty well-written party line that does little to excuse WotC's current policy of "light-to-no play testing before publication."

Sorry if I sound bitter. I just wish they'd edit their books more carefully and employ some people with more extensive knowledge of the rules.

. . . like ME, for instance!
Whether you've had DMs allow it or not, it's a fact:

eeee, lets not go down that road, k? Who knows whats intended, whats legal, and whatnot, right (just detracts from the thread)? I'll put them in the feat section, which is pretty sparse anyways, and just put a footnote on them (the general "consult w/ DM ahead of time" disclaimer), k? The CustServ answer may have been fluffy, but it has as much weight on what the rules are supposed to be as the CWar text that contradicts it completely, as lame as that is. When in doubt, I always lean towards what I envision a real DM would allow.

small rant
p 16 CWar has what happens when one no longer qualifies for a PrC (loses almost all the class abilities). The SRD says what happens when a character no longer qualifies for a feat (can't use it). The SRD also says "Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat". Its the "other quality" thing that allows non-standard qualification, and causes all the problems: how long do you need the quality? And, what is "other quality"? Does this only mean things that aren't the former??? If yes, then no, characters w/o actual levels can never qualify for things like evasion and such, which sucks the air out of a dead donkey's butt. This seems to be what the custserv ruling suggests.


Anyways, its an old (and as far as I know) unsolved problem, that hasn't been adressed well at all.
If nothing else the level of cleric and reliance on tenebrious leads us to a the tenebrious apostle PrC
I haven't lost my mind I've simply misplaced it
If I wasn't up to my neck in schoolwork right now, I'd do it myself; but I think it would be great if all the vestige combos could be organized (instead of by function) by level avaliable.

They could still be subcategorized into "Caster", "Combat", and "Miscellaneous", but a level-by-level breakdown would be much more efficient for the quick scan. That way, when I level up my hypothetical Binder, I can just pop over to the handbook and take a peek at level 6 to make sure I'm not missing any potential cleverness.
If I wasn't up to my neck in schoolwork right now, I'd do it myself; but I think it would be great if all the vestige combos could be organized (instead of by function) by level avaliable.

They could still be subcategorized into "Caster", "Combat", and "Miscellaneous", but a level-by-level breakdown would be much more efficient for the quick scan. That way, when I level up my hypothetical Binder, I can just pop over to the handbook and take a peek at level 6 to make sure I'm not missing any potential cleverness.

hmmm, thats a good idea. I'll have to think about how to format it, b/c the amount of data to sift through is pretty sick.
Or you could just simply append a note at the beginning of each combo saying which level is required. Something like a simple before the combo for example would be simple enough.
Or you could just simply append a note at the beginning of each combo saying which level is required. Something like a simple before the combo for example would be simple enough.

Yeah, that works, and it's easier. Then you could just do a *control f* thing and look up everything appropriate for your level.


Though if this is going to go through a refomatting anytime soon, organizing the bulk of the information by what level it's appropriate for would be best, in my opinion.

Obviously all the basic information and stuff that's relevant 1 - 20 would stay more or less as-is, but anything specifically requiring higher level resources to achieve could be organized as such. I only say this because so much of what's in the handbook now (and rightfully so, I'm not complaining) is combos of some sort, leading to this guide, moreso than others, benefiting from a different format.
I like that idea; I don't have much time to work on it today, though.




I thought of another combo, JJ's post above as inspiration:

[Tenebrous] + [Savnok] + [Malphus] + [Marchosias] + Battlejump (Unapproachable East): Summon the bird using Malphus, and have it fly above your enemy (at least 10'). Use Savnok's Move Ally ability to switch places with it. Since you've fallen at least 10', you get extra damage from Battlejump, and activate a charge. As you're falling, make a Hide check (+16 thanks to Marchosias); Tenebrous's Deeper Darkness allows you to make the check. You get all of Malphus's Sudden Strike damage on top of that as well, now. If you have Able Learner, and Hide and Move Silent as class skills (somehow), then you can dump Marchosias and add Chupoclops so you can full attack instead, adding a Bite that can also benefit.



Something silly about the combos: there's 39 vestiges. Randomly throw together 4 of them, and figure out what you can do that's unique, and you get a new combo. Seriously: try it!
I guess I did have time... The biggest problem that I see is that there's not much in the way of low-level feat combos, just a small section I wrote that was more to do with strategy than anything else.
Nice!
New vestiges in the cityscape web enhancement

Take a look here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a
I haven't lost my mind I've simply misplaced it
New vestiges in the cityscape web enhancement

Take a look here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a

First thoughts: OMG PWNZERZ!Q!!!Whoa!!!

L4
Astaroth: Angelic Lore, Asaroth's Breath, Honeyed Toungue, Master Craftsman, Word of Azaroth

So now the Binder can act as a cheapened version of an item creating Warlock, needing to pay for the casting of spells (or using Karsus and a spell trigger item), and can make items. Honeyed Toungue?! as if the binder NEEDED another diplomacy and bluff boost... Bardic Knowledge is always good, and Suggestions on 2-3 people are great! Cone effect nauseation for a round is great, but doesn't seem as powerful as the other abilities.

L6
Desharis: City Dweller, Infinite Doors, Language of the City, Smite Natural Soul, Spirits of the City

So, Infinite Doors seems awesome for any urban game: bad guys ambush you, and things go bad, no prob. Combine w/ Flicker from Tenebrous, and you can get nearly anwhere you want: Flicker to get to a door, and pop in front of the town guard, for example. Toungues among humanoids is meh, since agares gives you a better version. City Dweller gives you +6 Kn: Local and Gather Info, but it doesn't specify which Kn: Local: combine w/ Naberius, as one of the combos in the main section, and take Kn:Local for any region you ever want to visit (including other planes!). BUT....

Animate Objects at your EBL? That's... just... wicked...

yeah, definitely, there's gonna be some combos w/ these... I'll add them to the main page, poste haste.



How bout this for a combo: Desharis, Halphax, Haures, Zagan: Emulates Animate Objects, Antipathy, Phantasmal Killer, Imprisonment, Major Illusion. Also gets you Improved Grapple, and this doesn't limit what other abilities you can use. Talk about battlefield control!
Wow. With magic like that, you wouldn't even have to deal damage. You could just confuse your enemies until their heads exploded.
wow, the posts have really picked up and with good insights also. My DM changed his mind and is now not letting me play the Anthropomorphic Ape so I'm thinking of going Human but not sure if I should drop the two level dip in Swordsage given I won't have great wisdom.
wow, the posts have really picked up and with good insights also. My DM changed his mind and is now not letting me play the Anthropomorphic Ape so I'm thinking of going Human but not sure if I should drop the two level dip in Swordsage given I won't have great wisdom.

I'd say build a human "generalist" binder, since you can't go min-max on the dex this way. This would entail Imp. Binding (hopefully, retraining will be allowed), Weapon Focus: (probably morningstar), and getting into KotSS soon (or waiting until 10th for Chupoclops). You still get to do a lot w/ a straight binder. See if your DM would allow you some XP past 6th so you could make some items w/ the new vestige Astaroth before campaign comencement.
Well, the new Item Creation ability of Astaroth was bothering me...
For Astaroth (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a), how does the Binder use the item creation ability if he doesn't have the requisite caster level? Was his Binder Level meant to qualify as caster level, or is he required to get a spellcaster of significantly high caster level to cast the spell for item creation?

Although I see under item creation that for most items a different caster can produce the spell, I don't see where it says that the "other" spellcaster can also "donate" his caster level for item creation. Could you give an example about how a Binder would use the ability, because I'm fairly confused about it?

Hello James,

Unfortunately there is no information to answer this for us. It will be up to the Dungeon Master to adjudicate it as he sees fair and fit.

Good Luck and Game On!

Wha?! So, there's no way to know how it was supposed to work?
Astaroth (Cityscape Web Enhancement) - Angelic Lore, [bold]Asaroth's[/bold] Breath, Honeyed [bold]Toungue[/bold], Master Craftsman, Word of [bold]Azaroth[/bold]

[bold]Text in bold[/bold]:
Is it supposed to be "Asaroth" or Astaroth?
"Toungue" is misspelled.
Is it supposed to be "Azaroth" or Astaroth?

Trying to help in what little way I can.
Thx.

Updated the first posts: they are now colorful.

Also, added a handful of combos, and categorized the existing combos w/ 2-3 word descriptions of what the point of the combo was.
Am I the only one who thought of Scooby Doo when reading Infinite Doors?
Am I the only one who thought of Scooby Doo when reading Infinite Doors?

Yes. Yes you are. Which would be funny, except that its only once per day.

I wonder if you could animate a door, permanantly, then have it follow you around, for always being able to use the ability? Kind of Dr. Who-ish...
I wonder if you could animate a door, permanantly, then have it follow you around, for always being able to use the ability? Kind of Dr. Who-ish...

It specifically says the door must be attached to a building, so you would need to animate a whole building (maybe a small shed would work {and be even more Dr. who-ish when you paint it blue})
I haven't lost my mind I've simply misplaced it
Random question - I'm trying to create a good "unarmed" combo, and am having a bit of trouble. It's just for the day (in-game), so I'm not fooling around with class dips or feats or anything, just trying to pick the right three vestiges.

At lvl 15, what is the best three-vestige combo and pact augmentations for a day of unarmed fighting?

I was looking at vestiges like Amon, Chuc, Zagan, Ronove, and Ipos, but didn't know what the best combo would be.

Thanks!
Random question - I'm trying to create a good "unarmed" combo, and am having a bit of trouble. It's just for the day (in-game), so I'm not fooling around with class dips or feats or anything, just trying to pick the right three vestiges.

At lvl 15, what is the best three-vestige combo and pact augmentations for a day of unarmed fighting?

I was looking at vestiges like Amon, Chuc, Zagan, Ronove, and Ipos, but didn't know what the best combo would be.

Thanks!

actually, last night I put in a pretty wicked combo for this sort of build; its the last one under the "new combat" combos. It gets 8 attacks per round, all w/ good bonuses on damage.

Whatever you do, you want Chupoclops in it, and Ronove: this will get you pounce and iterative monk damage unarmed strikes, and a bite attack. For the third vestige, its debatable: either Ipos or Zagan would be good: Zagan gets you a grapple attack w/ your 3rd iterative attack (which would be great since you'd only have a low attack bonus anyways, so initiating a grapple w/ that last attack would rock); Ipos gives you 2 claw attacks and rend, but not much else. Grappling is a great idea in this combo, since you can get your unarmed strike damage off as well as all your natural attacks. You really can F*** some people up w/ this combo; put all your pact augmentation into initiative, and the NPCs won't know what hit them until they're dead.

ANY combination of Chupoclops, Ipos, Ronove, Otiax, and Zagan would be really good: since Amon would require Ignore Special Requirements as a feat, I wouldn't pick it up.
Hmm...Ronove was actually the first vestige I'd counted out, but then, I don't quite understand how her improved unarmed strike works. What exactly is the benefit of "iterative monk damage unarmed strikes"? Do those attacks mesh with Ipos' claws, or do I become ineligible because now I have natural weapons?

I had personally been looking at a pounce/charge combination with Amon and Chuc (I already have Ignore Special Requirements) - Amon gets extra damage on a charge with Chuc's pounce.

I'm pretty sure I want Zagan for the "grapple the softie, use aversion on the nearest threat" combo, but I also want to be doing decent damage per round, for which I thought Ipos was my best bet, with (1d6+Str)x2+Rend. He'd also give me more power in Amon's fire attack when I used it, but that's really a side note since it's not my primary focus.

It sounds like Chuc, Ronove, and Zagan is the best bet for what I want - I'll keep Ipos and Amon in the phylacteries (I love phylacteries) if I want to play around with it. Could you explain Ronove's attacks, though, please? Thanks.
Ronove's unarmed strikes do damage as a monk = to your binder level, and you get the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. That's it. If you use an unarmed strike, you get iterative attacks based on BAB.

You can't make iterative attacks from high BAB with natural weapons though; you just get 1 attack per round per natural weapon (I think its a silly mechanic, personally, but maybe it'll get changed in 4.0).

Unarmed Strikes do NOT necessarily make use of your fists: it could be an elbow, a headbutt, a knee to the groin, etc., so you could have Ipos bound for 2 claw attacks and get a full attack routine from Ronove as well (the claws have -5 as secondary natural attacks, though).

Its a bit complicated, but I learned a lot from the totemist threads floating around here.
I think I understand what you're saying about Ronove's attacks - many thanks.

So, if a 15th level monk does 2d6 unarmed damage, and a 15th level binder gets +11/+6/+1 to his attacks, then with Ronove bound I can make 3 unarmed attacks for 2d6+Str each at those attack bonuses, per round? What is my attack bonus for Amon's horns, Ipos' claws, or Chuc's tusks if I use them in the same round? And for clarification, I don't get to use Flurry of Blows attack bonuses, right?

Sorry, hopefully that's not too many questions.
no flurry. attack bonus for secondary natural attacks = normal attack bonus - 5.
So, if a 15th level monk does 2d6 unarmed damage, and a 15th level binder gets +11/+6/+1 to his attacks, then with Ronove bound I can make 3 unarmed attacks for 2d6+Str each at those attack bonuses, per round? What is my attack bonus for Amon's horns, Ipos' claws, or Chuc's tusks if I use them in the same round? And for clarification, I don't get to use Flurry of Blows attack bonuses, right?\

Yes.
+6.
No.
I really apreciate all the effort that has gone into giving us these wonderful Binder threads, I review them often.

Thank You
I am playing a 11 level binder(6) Kots(5)(andras as my patron).
I wanted to ask: if I'm bound to Chupoclops and andras, and I use andras horse to charge with a lance, and then I do two lance attacks with the pounce ability, do both attacks do double damage?
I'll repeat what I said in the Player's board: No.
I'll repeat what I said in the Player's board: No.

can you explain that? i think it does. he did charge, after all.