## The CO response to fastest possible speed

427 posts / 0 new

## Pages

pyrohemophiliac
Joined Dec 1969
Ok, so the Theoretical Op boards has this thread on max possible speed. Because of Complete Champ I have a good one round solution to that question.

Ok first off, sorry but I do not have the book in front of me so I do not have some of the specific names.

You need: DMM Persist and the new spell in Complete Champ that gives you an alternate movement mode based on a deity that you choose when you cast the spell. Doesn't really matter what god you choose, although Fharlangh gives the biggest boost. Oh and the Run feat.

So that previously mentioned spell says as a swift action you can discharge the remaining energy for a bonus to your speed equal to 5x the remaining duration in rounds.

So burning a persisted version creates, let's see:
5 x 10(rounds in a minute) x 60 minutes in an hour x 24 hours in a day = a bonus of 72,000 to your base land speed. Multiply by 4 for running, that's 288,000 ft in one round (six seconds). That's 48,000 ft/second. This does not include your base speed or any other bonuses to speed you may have (but honestly does it need to).

Barring an infinite loop I think I win.

Now you may be asking yourself, what is the point, when will this ever be necessary. Well, the point is obviously "FOR SCIENCE" and it may come in handy the next time your in Sigil and the Lady of Pain says, "I think you better leave, NOW."

So now that I have wasted your time, just remember to thank me when your enjoying the fact that you just made Greyhawk's first sonic boom.
frasmage
Joined Dec 1969
I don't have the book, but I believe there area few things wrong with this:

1. I don't think you can persist dischargeable effects

The spell must be Personal or have a fixed range (such as Detect Magic), cannot have an Instantaneous duration, and cannot be an effect that is discharged (such as Protection from Element).

yep

2. Even if it could, you are assuming that one round of discharge is the one that gets persisted, where in reality, you owuld persist the base duration and get that one round, for exactly that.

3. Multipliers don't multiplay straight (not 5x4), instead they add (5+3) for x8

all this, and I haven't even seen the spell
lordkiwi
Joined Dec 1969
2 additions to this to get 4 times the stated speed...

1) Extend + Persistent Spell makes the duration 48 hours.
2) Polymorph into a Cheetah to get x10 movement on a charge (instead of the x5 movement from the Run feat).

192,083' per second (including the cheetah's base speed of 50'), which is 130,965.909 miles per hour.

Sadly, since this only lasts for 6 seconds, you only travel around 218 miles, although it is a charge so you can attack at the end but it much be in a straight line :p.

Does the effect last for this round or for 1 round? Otherwise we could have fun with White Raven Tactics using people every 109 miles on a route to give you another turn (and another 109 miles of travel, using the run feat rather than cheetah sprint). More contraversialy, you could use it on yourself, using Ruby Knight Vindicator (+turn attempts) to get the extra swift action and restore the maneouvre.

Lord Kiwi,
blackstorm_sk
Joined Dec 1969
2 additions to this to get 4 times the stated speed...

1) Extend + Persistent Spell makes the duration 48 hours.

Sorry, but what of "A Persistent spell cannot be an effect that is discharged" isn't clear to you? :D
zombiegleemax
Joined Dec 1969
You need: DMM Persist and the new spell in Complete Champ that gives you an alternate movement mode based on a deity that you choose when you cast the spell. Doesn't really matter what god you choose, although Fharlangh gives the biggest boost. Oh and the Run feat.

So that previously mentioned spell says as a swift action you can discharge the remaining energy for a bonus to your speed equal to 5x the remaining duration in rounds.

So burning a persisted version creates, let's see:
5 x 10(rounds in a minute) x 60 minutes in an hour x 24 hours in a day = a bonus of 72,000 to your base land speed. Multiply by 4 for running, that's 288,000 ft in one round (six seconds). That's 48,000 ft/second. This does not include your base speed or any other bonuses to speed you may have (but honestly does it need to).

Your concept is right, but your math is wrong. Footsteps of the divine says you can expend the spell to add "...an additional +10 feet to your speed per round remaining in the spell's duration." Therefore, you gain a bonus of 10 x 10 x 60 x 24, or 144,000 ft/round. Times FIVE for the Run feat gives 720,000 ft/round, or 120,000 ft/sec.

To put this in perspective, this hypothetical cleric is running at more than four times Earth's escape velocity. He's running so fast that an atomic clock could detect the relativistic time dilation he undergoes as he moves. He's running so fast that, if this weren't magic, his body would be torn apart as he instantly accelerated to 100 times the speed of sound.

By strict RAW, I think this is legal. Persistent Spell states, "Spells of instantaneous duration cannot be affected by this feat, nor can spells whose effects are discharged." Since footsteps of the divine (the spell in question) has Personal range, and its duration entry is "1 round/level" rather than something sensible like "1 round/level or until discharged", it would seem to be a legal target for Persistent Spell. (DMM: Persist is also not required; footsteps of the divine is only Cleric 3rd.)

In addition, Persistent Spell also says "...have their duration increased to 24 hours." That seems pretty unambiguous: when you choose to expend the spell, its remaining duration is 24 hours minus any time you've used with the already-very-nice bonus to your land speed--or, preferably, since running requires a straight line, one of the fly speeds available from the spell.

The multipliers in this case actually do stack; the 10x10x60x24 is a bonus that's added in to your speed (let's not forget, this is the speed granted by the spell, not your regular speed), which is then multiplied by five. The intermediate step means the weird D&D multiplication rule doesn't apply.
pyrohemophiliac
Joined Dec 1969
First off, rmccowen thank you for reminding me of both the spells name and the fact that it is 10 feet per round remaining. Secondly, I agree that the fact that Footsteps of the divine can be discharged does not automatically bar it from being persisted. The limitation from spells whose effects can be discharged is a way of preventing players from claiming endless benefit from effects that can only absorb so much punishment (i.e. stoneskin/pro energy). Thanks for the Cheetah idea LordKiwi.

Also, while the perfect fly speeds are a nice option in Footsteps of the Divine's description, they are hardly necessary. An etherealness spell or even Freedom of Movement in a fairly open area works just fine.
raphael_maure
Joined Dec 1969
I agree that the fact that Footsteps of the divine can be discharged does not automatically bar it from being persisted. The limitation from spells whose effects can be discharged is a way of preventing players from claiming endless benefit from effects that can only absorb so much punishment (i.e. stoneskin/pro energy).

Rule-as-intended doesn't really concern this kind of optimization exercise. Rule-as-written is the thing.
That said, it all boils down to: Can Footsteps of the divine be persisted?
It may be worth asking the Sage or Custserv for a final yes/no answer.

Wasn't there some feat or class in one of the Fiendish Codexes that granted bonus damage on a charge depending on distance moved?
snakeman830
Joined Dec 1969
Couple ways to increase it further:

Dark Xeph tauric Cheetah. You get both Burst (+30ft) and Sprint (*10 speed) off in the same round for a base speed ( no magic) of 900ft.

Add in the Speed of thought feet, armor of quickness, Celerity domain, 1 level of Barbarian, etc.
raphael_maure
Joined Dec 1969
Speed of thought feet

You're right. Speed of thought feet for the win! How can your feet be faster than the speed of thought?
zombiegleemax
Joined Dec 1969
First off, rmccowen thank you for reminding me of both the spells name and the fact that it is 10 feet per round remaining. Secondly, I agree that the fact that Footsteps of the divine can be discharged does not automatically bar it from being persisted. The limitation from spells whose effects can be discharged is a way of preventing players from claiming endless benefit from effects that can only absorb so much punishment (i.e. stoneskin/pro energy). Thanks for the Cheetah idea LordKiwi.

My point about discharging, which I don't think I made very well, was that by RAW, footsteps of the divine isn't a spell whose effects can be discharged. The word "discharged" never appears at all anywhere in the spell description--in direct contrast to spells like protection from energy, stoneskin, and the crown of foo spells from PHII, which all have duration entries of "XXX or until discharged".

It also differs from other "discharged" spells in that it lasts for an additional round after you use the swift action to expend it.

Of course RAI blocks this; it's clear that Persistent Spell isn't intended to be used this way, and no sane DM is going to rule that your 5th-level DMM: Persist cleric can now run hundreds of miles in six seconds. But this spell looks like one of those weird corner cases that make the CharOp boards giddy, and I don't see any holes in it.

Wasn't there some feat or class in one of the Fiendish Codexes that granted bonus damage on a charge depending on distance moved?

No idea on the charge bonus damage--but if so, I smell a new damage record, as well.
commx
Joined Dec 1969
Wasn't there some feat or class in one of the Fiendish Codexes that granted bonus damage on a charge depending on distance moved?

Unfortunately, the Mark of Minauros (FCII) only adds a +2 to hit for each 10ft. you moved, so you would need a way of directly transferring that bonus to your damage roll if you want to get a new damage record.
r.213
Joined Dec 1969
No idea on the charge bonus damage--but if so, I smell a new damage record, as well.

Other synergies to look into: Tome of Battle, specifically maneuvers like Ring of Fire, Salamander Charge, Tornado Throw, etc.
zombiegleemax
Joined Dec 1969
Is it at all possible to combine this with the Setting Sun school's 8th level maneuvers (don't remember what it's called) to throw bad guys into orbit?

-- ACS
lordpendragon
Joined Dec 1969
I can't check right now, but I do think I remember the manoeuvre you're talking about, and if it's purely based off of distance moved (and not actual attacks per round) for the number of throws you can make, then that would be sick. It's like getting 400,000+ attacks in a single round!!

Combine with something that gets better with each hit, and you've got a winner.

EDIT - Maybe the Sadism spell??
surreal
Joined Jan 2005
1904 Posts
Throw in some Drunken Master for circular charge...
toloran
Joined Dec 1969
I can't check right now, but I do think I remember the manoeuvre you're talking about, and if it's purely based off of distance moved (and not actual attacks per round) for the number of throws you can make, then that would be sick. It's like getting 400,000+ attacks in a single round!!

Combine with something that gets better with each hit, and you've got a winner.

EDIT - Maybe the Sadism spell??

It is a 9th level maneuver and is called "Tornado Throw."

Here is how it exactly works:

First you have to move at least 10ft to an enemy and you can move up to twice your move speed as part of this maneuver. So base 60ft move with the cheetah sprint ability for a total of 600ft on a charge (1/day). Since you can move as up to twice your move as part of the maneuver, that is a total of 1200ft or 240 5ft increments.

The second part is you have to make a melee touch attack and trip the target. You get a +2 bonus on this check for every 5ft you move. Since you can move 1200ft, that is a +480 on the check. Note: It isn't like skirmish which requires you to move a distance from your starting point, just how far you moved.

The third part is that they are thrown 10f away from you and take 2d6 damage.

The fourth (and most important) part is that for every 5 points you beat them on the check, they move and additional 5ft and take an additional 1d6 damage.

So assuming your base check (Ie, before the bonus from moving) is equal to your targets, that means you are throwing them a minimum of 490ft and dealing 98d6 damage. That is on the low end with a minimal amount of optimization.

With rmccowen's example, we have a total move of 288,000 ft (you can't run but you can double move as part of this maneuver). With that much move, you get a bonus of +576000 to your trip check. That would cause you to throw your target (again, assuming that ignoring the bonus, you match your target on the trip check) 576010ft and deal 115202d6 damage for an average of 403,207 damage. A tidy sum for a single full-round action.
lordpendragon
Joined Dec 1969
Well... that was both succinct, and awesome. Wasn't the last melee damage record around 30,000 or so?? And if I remember correctly, that build made liberal use of pre-combat buffing. If this works, then it not only blows the last record out of the water, but also does it much more reliably, and with hardly any buffing time.

About Cheetah's Speed... I'm pretty sure the sprint ability only lets you move 10x on a run/charge instead of 4x (or 2x, for the charge). I don't think it actually multiplies your base speed by 10 for a round.
zombiegleemax
Joined Dec 1969
It is a 9th level maneuver and is called "Tornado Throw."

...snip...

With rmccowen's example, we have a total move of 288,000 ft (you can't run but you can double move as part of this maneuver). With that much move, you get a bonus of +576000 to your trip check. That would cause you to throw your target (again, assuming that ignoring the bonus, you match your target on the trip check) 576010ft and deal 115202d6 damage for an average of 403,207 damage. A tidy sum for a single full-round action.

Now we just have to get a build that has access to 9th-level maneuvers and 3rd-level cleric spells... I'll give this a shot tonight, when I'm not AFB.
lordpendragon
Joined Dec 1969
Now we just have to get a build that has access to 9th-level maneuvers and 3rd-level cleric spells... I'll give this a shot tonight, when I'm not AFB.

Not hard, man... Cleric 6/Swordsage 14.

Due to the unique nature of ToB multiclassing, the above build gets an IL of 17, allowing 9th level manoeuvres. If Swordsage doesn't gain a known manoeuvre on 14th level, then make it Cleric 5/Swordsage 15; it'll be the same effect.

EDIT - AND there's a PrC that's actually made for this stuff. Ruby Knight Vindicator gets both manoeuvres and divine spell progression. On top of that, it'll allow you to burn turn attempts to recharge your manoeuvres. Lots of nightsticks or Extra Turning feats are recommended :P
commx
Joined Dec 1969
Now we just have to get a build that has access to 9th-level maneuvers and 3rd-level cleric spells... I'll give this a shot tonight, when I'm not AFB.

That shouldn't be to hard. You need 17 Initiator Levels and 5 Cleric Levels to get all you need, and you only need 14 levels in a Martial class to reach that 17. You could simply go Cleric 5/Martial Class 15 and be done with it.
saragon42
Joined Dec 1969
Couple ways to increase it further:

Dark Xeph tauric Cheetah. You get both Burst (+30ft) and Sprint (*10 speed) off in the same round for a base speed ( no magic) of 900ft.

Add in the Speed of thought feet, armor of quickness, Celerity domain, 1 level of Barbarian, etc.

I don't have a copy of Savage Species, so I'm going to take snakeman830 at his word on the Dark Xeph Tauric Cheetah. I also can't calculate the LA on that, so this is very incomplete, but here's what I've come up with that avoids the DMM: Persist trick above:

Dark Xeph Tauric Cheetah
Monk 3 / Psionic Fist 5 (SRD) / Tattooed Monk 2+ (CW) / ?
Feats: Wild Talent (required for PsiFist), Speed of Thought (Psionic)
Tattoos: Wasp (haste for 1 round/Tattooed Monk level)
Base speed: 60' (since the Xeph boost is only +30', and the cheetah's Charge is x10, this has to be the base speed. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on this - again, I'm deriving the details of the base creature from what was said above.)
Monk speed bonus: +30' (we need to find a way to get 12 monk levels total for +40'.)

Our speedy little Xeph/Cheetah basically builds up like so:
Round 0: At any point prior to this process, he becomes psionically focused (+10').
Round 1: manifests skate (+15' on flat ground, or +30' downhill, or +0' uphill. We'll say +15' on average.) Lasts 1 min./manifester level.
Round 2: uses wasp tattoo for haste (+30')
Round 3: the big finish! Burst (+30') and hustle (extra move action this round.) Charge (x10).

That's (60'+30'+10'+15'+30'+30')x10+(60'+30'+10'+15'+30'+30')x2 = 2050' in 6 seconds, if my math is right.

If after taking all the monk-compatible class and PrC levels needed, one could mix in enough cleric levels to cast footsteps of the divine and (if it doesn't apply only to charges like the cheetah's ability) cheetah's speed from Complete Divine. I don't have CD or Comp. Champions in front of me, however.

And of course with enough buffs from other sources (e.g. a scroll of expeditious retreat) and equipment (boots of striding and springing or those Cyrian skates from Eberron) you'll be significantly faster.
raphael_maure
Joined Dec 1969
EDIT: Post cut for patent stupidity of question presented therein.
toloran
Joined Dec 1969
Well... that was both succinct, and awesome. Wasn't the last melee damage record around 30,000 or so?? And if I remember correctly, that build made liberal use of pre-combat buffing. If this works, then it not only blows the last record out of the water, but also does it much more reliably, and with hardly any buffing time.

About Cheetah's Speed... I'm pretty sure the sprint ability only lets you move 10x on a run/charge instead of 4x (or 2x, for the charge). I don't think it actually multiplies your base speed by 10 for a round.

Here is the exact text:

Sprint (Ex)

Once per hour, a cheetah can move ten times its normal speed (500 feet) when it makes a charge.

Soo yes, it is a straight multiplier and not "instead of."

Granted, this trick is only useable once per hour but still. 400k damage every hour isn't something to sneeze at.

Not hard, man... Cleric 6/Swordsage 14.

Due to the unique nature of ToB multiclassing, the above build gets an IL of 17, allowing 9th level manoeuvres. If Swordsage doesn't gain a known manoeuvre on 14th level, then make it Cleric 5/Swordsage 15; it'll be the same effect.

EDIT - AND there's a PrC that's actually made for this stuff. Ruby Knight Vindicator gets both manoeuvres and divine spell progression. On top of that, it'll allow you to burn turn attempts to recharge your manoeuvres. Lots of nightsticks or Extra Turning feats are recommended :P

True, it is easy to do, the hard part is fitting the cheetahs sprint ability in (which makes the whole thing literally 10 times better).

In any case, quick attempt at a build:

Needed:
A Tauric Cheetah/Xeph is 4 HD +1 Level Adjust. Gives Burst (+30 move, 3/day) and Sprint (10x move on a charge 1/hour).
For the 9th level maneuver, you need a 17 IL. You IL is equal to Levels in a martial class + 1/2 of levels in non-martial classes (HD don't count at all).
Needs to be a 5th level cleric for 3rd level spells.

So....

Tauric Cheetah/Xeph Monsterous Humanoid 4/Cleric 5/Swordsage 10 wouldn't work because that only gives a IL of 12

Tauric Cheetah/Xeph Monsterous Humanoid 4/Cleric 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 5/Swordsage 9 wouldn't work either because then your IL is only 14 (+2 off the previous but still not enough).

Tauric is out since there will always be at least two racial HD and that makes you unable to reach all the requirements by level 20. That leaves polymorphing into a cheetah. Unfortunately, that is wiz/sorcerer spell =\ So while they can cast it off a scroll or have an ally cast it, It would be better if you could do it yourself.

EDIT:

I don't have a copy of Savage Species, so I'm going to take snakeman830 at his word on the Dark Xeph Tauric Cheetah. I also can't calculate the LA on that, so this is very incomplete, but here's what I've come up with that avoids the DMM: Persist trick above:

Dark Xeph Tauric Cheetah
Monk 3 / Psionic Fist 5 (SRD) / Tattooed Monk 2+ (CW) / ?
Feats: Wild Talent (required for PsiFist), Speed of Thought (Psionic)
Tattoos: Wasp (haste for 1 round/Tattooed Monk level)
Base speed: 60' (since the Xeph boost is only +30', and the cheetah's Charge is x10, this has to be the base speed. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on this - again, I'm deriving the details of the base creature from what was said above.)
Monk speed bonus: +30' (we need to find a way to get 12 monk levels total for +40'.)

Our speedy little Xeph/Cheetah basically builds up like so:
Round 0: At any point prior to this process, he becomes psionically focused (+10').
Round 1: manifests skate (+15' on flat ground, or +30' downhill, or +0' uphill. We'll say +15' on average.) Lasts 1 min./manifester level.
Round 2: uses wasp tattoo for haste (+30')
Round 3: the big finish! Burst (+30') and hustle (extra move action this round.) Charge (x10).

That's (60'+30'+10'+15'+30'+30')x10+(60'+30'+10'+15'+30'+30')x2 = 2050' in 6 seconds, if my math is right.

If after taking all the monk-compatible class and PrC levels needed, one could mix in enough cleric levels to cast footsteps of the divine and (if it doesn't apply only to charges like the cheetah's ability) cheetah's speed from Complete Divine. I don't have CD or Comp. Champions in front of me, however.

And of course with enough buffs from other sources (e.g. a scroll of expeditious retreat) and equipment (boots of striding and springing or those Cyrian skates from Eberron) you'll be significantly faster.

Skate: Enhancement Bonus
Haste: Enhancement Bonus
Burst: Competence Bonus
Speed of Thought: Insight Bonus
Expeditious Retreat: Enhancement Bonus
Boots of Striding and Springing: Enhancement Bonus (The jump bonus is competence though).

So yeah, most of those don't stack =P
lordpendragon
Joined Dec 1969
True, it is easy to do, the hard part is fitting the cheetahs sprint ability in (which makes the whole thing literally 10 times better).

You could just take the Cheetah's Speed feat (Complete Divine). It lets you burn one turn attempt to move like a cheetah for an hour (including the once per hour burst of speed).
raphael_maure
Joined Dec 1969
You could just take the Cheetah's Speed feat (Complete Divine). It lets you burn one turn attempt to move like a cheetah for an hour (including the once per hour burst of speed).

Nope. That's a Wild Feat: it has "the ability to wild shape" as a prereq. and it burns 1 wild shape use /hour (not a turn attempt).

But an Archivist could learn both Footsteps and... Shape Change (Animal domain, 9)? Polymorph any object (Trickery, 8)? Anything lower in level? Too bad no Domain has Polymorph, apparently...
pyrohemophiliac
Joined Dec 1969
OK. So I want to say thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Honestly, I posted this at like 4am, got about six replies and then went to bed. When I came back, LordPendragon thought to combine this with Tornado Throw (yay ToB) and suddenly we have a new max damage/round trick (barring infinite loops of course).

That's pretty much the recap. While I expect people to try to get this move speed even higher, remember, that the HUGE speed is coming from a Persisted spell, and any addition is likely just adding marginal amounts of fuel to an already roaring inferno. That doesn't mean we should stop. I like my fires bright... and burny!

My next idea involves magma pits, possibly from that spell in Sandstorm. Technically EACH time someone is submerged in lava they take 20d6 fire damage. So give yourself immunity to fire, and suddenly you get another 10,080,000 (average) fire damage from throwing the poor guy into and out of lava every 10ft.

Mmmmmm... extra crispy dragon wings.
toloran
Joined Dec 1969
Nope. That's a Wild Feat: it has "the ability to wild shape" as a prereq. and it burns 1 wild shape use /hour (not a turn attempt).

But an Archivist could learn both Footsteps and... Shape Change (Animal domain, 9)? Polymorph any object (Trickery, 8)? Anything lower in level? Too bad no Domain has Polymorph, apparently...

Would it be possible to go the other direction then? As in somehow get the cleric spell on the druid list? If you could, all you would need is druid 5/swordsage 15 and get the whole package.
snakeman830
Joined Dec 1969
I don't have a copy of Savage Species, so I'm going to take snakeman830 at his word on the Dark Xeph Tauric Cheetah. I also can't calculate the LA on that, so this is very incomplete, but here's what I've come up with that avoids the DMM: Persist trick above:

Dark Xeph Tauric Cheetah
Monk 3 / Psionic Fist 5 (SRD) / Tattooed Monk 2+ (CW) / ?
Feats: Wild Talent (required for PsiFist), Speed of Thought (Psionic)
Tattoos: Wasp (haste for 1 round/Tattooed Monk level)
Base speed: 60' (since the Xeph boost is only +30', and the cheetah's Charge is x10, this has to be the base speed. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on this - again, I'm deriving the details of the base creature from what was said above.)
Monk speed bonus: +30' (we need to find a way to get 12 monk levels total for +40'.)

Our speedy little Xeph/Cheetah basically builds up like so:
Round 0: At any point prior to this process, he becomes psionically focused (+10').
Round 1: manifests skate (+15' on flat ground, or +30' downhill, or +0' uphill. We'll say +15' on average.) Lasts 1 min./manifester level.
Round 2: uses wasp tattoo for haste (+30')
Round 3: the big finish! Burst (+30') and hustle (extra move action this round.) Charge (x10).

That's (60'+30'+10'+15'+30'+30')x10+(60'+30'+10'+15'+30'+30')x2 = 2050' in 6 seconds, if my math is right.

If after taking all the monk-compatible class and PrC levels needed, one could mix in enough cleric levels to cast footsteps of the divine and (if it doesn't apply only to charges like the cheetah's ability) cheetah's speed from Complete Divine. I don't have CD or Comp. Champions in front of me, however.

And of course with enough buffs from other sources (e.g. a scroll of expeditious retreat) and equipment (boots of striding and springing or those Cyrian skates from Eberron) you'll be significantly faster.

Couple notes on this.

1. Xephs are naturally Psionic, so you don't need to blow a feat on Wild Talent (though I'd love to see this trick combined with Up the Walls) (Edit: Or is having the Wild Talent feat a prereq for Psifist?).

2. Dark template (ToM) increases base land speed by 10ft, so added to the cheetah's base speed of 50 ft makes 60ft.

I personally would drop the monk levels as enhancement bonuses to speed are incredibly common. A simple Haste spell works like 9 levels of monk and is available long before then.

However, fitting Hustle somehow in there is a great idea.

Edit: I'm aware the Tornado throw build is not possible with this race until epic levels, but I believe the build in the OP works before then (though I can't be sure as I don't have Complete Champion).
deathmond
Joined Dec 1969
You could get polymorph on the cleric spell list by using the Divine Magician alternate class feature if I'm not mistaken.
r.213
Joined Dec 1969
OK. So I want to say thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Honestly, I posted this at like 4am, got about six replies and then went to bed. When I came back, LordPendragon thought to combine this with Tornado Throw (yay ToB) and suddenly we have a new max damage/round trick (barring infinite loops of course).

What am I, chopped liver? :P
pyrohemophiliac
Joined Dec 1969
What am I, chopped liver? :P

Sincere apologies. I failed to give credit where it was due *R*. I will say that exploding an entire village with Ring of Fire seems both horrifying and suprisingly hilarious.

Now if I could only remember where I put that darn soul of mine.
r.213
Joined Dec 1969
Sincere apologies. I failed to give credit where it was due *R*. I will say that exploding an entire village with Ring of Fire seems both horrifying and suprisingly hilarious.

Now if I could only remember where I put that darn soul of mine.

Heh, it's fine, I'm just amused that when I mention Tornado Throw, nobody bats an eyelash, but then someone else mentions "wasn't there that 8th level Setting Sun maneuver or something?" and suddenly there's an optimization frenzy :P It can really make a guy wonder if his posts are invisible. :P
raphael_maure
Joined Dec 1969
You could get polymorph on the cleric spell list by using the Divine Magician alternate class feature if I'm not mistaken.

Wrong. Abjuration, Divination and Necromancy spells only.
bensan
Joined Dec 1969
The Oriental Adventures Shapeshifter gets wild shape with a one-level dip, letting you either qualify for wild feats or just WS into a cheetah. To qualify, though, you'd either need Polymorph on your spell list (which makes WS kind of unnecessary) or to be a hengeyokai (which as of the Dragon update has lost its level adjustment).
snakeman830
Joined Dec 1969
Hey *R*, I saw it! (but I don't have ToB, so I didn't realize the significane)

Now I just need to spring this on an unsuspecting party...
raphael_maure
Joined Dec 1969
Heh, it's fine, I'm just amused that when I mention Tornado Throw, nobody bats an eyelash, but then someone else mentions "wasn't there that 8th level Setting Sun maneuver or something?" and suddenly there's an optimization frenzy :P It can really make a guy wonder if his posts are invisible. :P

I guess the majority of us still can't recall most ToB maneuveurs by name. A little bit of a description helps.
raphael_maure
Joined Dec 1969
:Now I just need to spring this on an unsuspecting party...

Why? Do you like people to stand up and walk away from the game (forever) while calling you a sadist?
r.213
Joined Dec 1969
I guess the majority of us still can't recall most ToB maneuveurs by name. A little bit of a description helps.

Fair enough.
My wife and I were so impressed by ToB that we made flashcards :D
(Pretty nice-looking, too, if I say so myself. I modeled them on Magic: The Gathering layout, digitally. Gotta get around to printing them out though...)
lordpendragon
Joined Dec 1969
That would cause you to throw your target (again, assuming that ignoring the bonus, you match your target on the trip check) 576010ft and deal 115202d6 damage for an average of 403,207 damage. A tidy sum for a single full-round action.

I also just realized that this is throwing your opponent over 100 miles in 6 seconds (roughly 18 miles per second, or 28 km/s). Assuming the standard D&D physics generalization that the apogee of a thrown object is 1/4 the distance thrown, then you are also tossing that sucker over 25 miles up into the air (~40 km). Assuming the campaign world is roughly equal to Earth in terms of gravity (which must be true, since all the physics is based off of Earth physics), then this throw is more than enough to send your target outside of the planet's orbit (judging by Earth's escape velocity of ~11.2 km/s).

It's like a save-or-die, except with no SR, and no save.

Next we need to work on getting the velocity to over 40 km/s, to generate enough speed to launch them out of the solar system!!

What am I, chopped liver? :P

Don't worry... I still think you deserve credit.
deathmond
Joined Dec 1969
Wrong. Abjuration, Divination and Necromancy spells only.

Doh! I really should go and check the book before I post.
snakeman830
Joined Dec 1969
Why? Do you like people to stand up and walk away from the game (forever) while calling you a sadist?

Nah, my group knows I'll occasionally throw something absolutely insane at them once in a while. My world doesn't go "You encounter only CR's 2 or lower when you are level 1, only CR's 14-16 at level 15, etc." It is realistic with mixes of power levels (they actually met Pun-pun once, thank god they didn't try to fight him).

But they do call me a sadist, sometimes :D

Oh yeah, has anyone else noticed this is proably the fastest growing thread on these boards? Kind of ironic.