Community

But neither Flame Blade nor Produce Flame is a touch range spell. Flame Blade creates a blade that you can make touch attacks with, but it's not the same as a touch spell, mechanically or thematically. It makes sense that you wouldn't hold the charge on flame blade.

Yes, flame blade doesn't discharge. Yes, most touch spells end up effectively discharging on touching, but the only reason we can say that is because they have instantaneous duration. If the duration is anything other than instantaneous, how can we say the spell isn't discharged when the last round passes, as opposed to when you first touch an opponent? It makes sense that you are holding the charge of a touch spell for as long as you can deliver more charges of it, rather than a blade you conjure and then hit things with for as long as it lasts.

Me initially saying that discharging is the same thing as ending was wrong, since Mage's Faithful Hound doesn't end on discharging either.
That bit of the SRD does say that touching anything discharges the power, but Hammer could just be said to discharge multiple times and end when the duration ends. But as long as the spell is active, you'd still be considered holding the charge, since you still would be postponing discharge; just a different discharge than you were a second ago if you've recently touched something.

But I definately agree that they either didn't put in enough text for this power, or didn't think hard enough about whay they did put in. If no conclusion can be reached, I'd say vote on it, though I'd wait for others to chime in if they'd like.

Are we looking at different srds?

Hammer

What I've been going on is that a touch spell is just any spell with a range of touch...but if it also means that it has to have an instantaneous duration as well, it would explain things.

That said, I don't see where the SRD says that. As far as I can tell, there is no definition for 'touch spell,' just spells with a range of touch, which hammer is.

Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.

These are the only times 'touch spell' is referenced in the SRD. The only requirement I've seen for a spell to be a touch spell, is that its' range must be touch; nothing about it's duration.

Though it would make much more sense if that were a requirement. 

So...you're either saying that, because hammer is not a touch spell(because it's not instantaneous duration), it doesn't follow the rules for holding the charge.

To which I say that Hammer 'is' a touch spell, because the only requirement is that the spell's range must be touch, and that the spell's duration is not a factor in determining whether it is a touch spell by the rules, even if it makes little sense. 

Or you're saying that the central quote can't apply to Hammer because it can hit someone more than once, and thus can't be a touch spell.

To which I refer to the whole 'just because it discharges once doesn't mean it ends(see Mage's Faithful Hound) or that it can't discharge again' arguement above. 

In any case, I believe this thread demonstrates that people believe you shouldn't have to hold the charge on Hammer though, even if I don't see the reasoning behind the rules. (to be clear, I believe it 'should' work the way everyone else is arguing too)