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Switch to Forum Live View Weekend Challenge: Build a High Spell "Point"/Power Point Total
11 months ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 7:19AM #1
TelinArtho
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Date Joined: Nov 3, 2004
Posts: 13,722
Weekend Challenge: Build the highest spell "point"/power point total

Okay, so this one is a little different than the past ones because I want to make a whole lot of variables that you have to account for.

ECL10, standard CoCo point buy and everything but custom items as usual.

How to calculate points:

1. For arcane and divine casters, we're talking about total spell levels
2. For creatures with SLAs, count these as if they were spells of the appropriate level
3. For creatures with PLAs, count these as the total augmented cost of the power. So a character with Energy Ray 1/day at ML5 would get 5 points. If the power cannot be augmented, it is just the value of the power as normally manifested.
4. Wilders are going to get the short end of the stick here - they get no boost to PP pool due to surging.

I'm pretty sure this means that the psionics will win out, overall, but let's have two categories (spell levels and power points) and see who wins for each.

As with the previous challenge, all sources of spell levels/power points must be effectively permanent (so no casting fox's cunning or animal affinity, but an headband of intellect is fine). Also no items that would cost credits are allowed.

As with the previous challenge, the submissions are closed, so shoot me a PM with your answer.

The challenge will close on Monday morning when I post to this thread. I will set my benchmark at over 200 power points..

The winner for each side receives 2 credits.

Previous Challenges
Build a High Defense Character
Build a High Hit Point Character
Build an Expert Craftsman

This thread can be used for discussion and to ask for clarifications.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 7:27AM #2
TelinArtho
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My benchmark for spell levels is in the high 90s...
The COre COliseum just hit 1000 fights! Come join the fun and be a part of this milestone! Next pairings are set for 22 August 2012. Activate TODAY!
Blue Moon Aurora is looking for some fresh blood to populate their forums. Home of the Duet and West Pacific Supers!
Check out the other PbP games around:
Real AdventuresPbP HavenThe Guild House
Garic's CityMap of the PlanesD20 Modern
Castle of FunTerisia City and Fan FictionGleemax Roleplaying
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 11:11AM #3
The_Fred
Date Joined: Jan 4, 2012
Posts: 3,085
A quick thought - some SLAs and PLAs are at will. I'm assuming these don't count as infinite? Do X/day powers count as X times as many SL or PP, though?
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 11:23AM #4
TelinArtho
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Ah crap - I forgot about those. For the sake of argument call it 5*SL/PL - so if you had Detect Evil at will, that counts for 5 spell levels.

And yes - if you get something 3/day and it is worth 2 spell levels per casting - that's 6 spell levels for you.
The COre COliseum just hit 1000 fights! Come join the fun and be a part of this milestone! Next pairings are set for 22 August 2012. Activate TODAY!
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Garic's CityMap of the PlanesD20 Modern
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 07, 2012 - 11:12AM #5
Eluria
Date Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 3,156
I love this contest!
submitted.
The COre COliseum is a tactics-based arena for both 3.5e and 4e D&D. We run fights each week - so join today!
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The COre COliseum's first annual Prestige Competetion (ENDED) Design an ECL7-10 character incorporating prestige classes (winner is Hayrol, The Hound of Hell)

The COre COliseum's second annual Character Design Competetion CLOSED - Design an ECL4-20 character with no class levels!
(winner is The Hunter)
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 07, 2012 - 11:24AM #6
TelinArtho
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Well I've got two submissions so far. I don't see anyone beating my benchmark for PPs yet - but for SLs - nice job.

Keep going.

@Eluria - I do like having these every once in a while. I am perfectly fine with someone else hosting it occasionally - but send me a note of intention and make sure to have at least a month between them.
The COre COliseum just hit 1000 fights! Come join the fun and be a part of this milestone! Next pairings are set for 22 August 2012. Activate TODAY!
Blue Moon Aurora is looking for some fresh blood to populate their forums. Home of the Duet and West Pacific Supers!
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Garic's CityMap of the PlanesD20 Modern
Castle of FunTerisia City and Fan FictionGleemax Roleplaying
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 07, 2012 - 8:43PM #7
Yitzi
Date Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 2,760
Submitted for both.
Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but don't like excessive splatbook use?
Come visit the Core Coliseum today, and give it a try.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 08, 2012 - 9:04AM #8
The_Fred
Date Joined: Jan 4, 2012
Posts: 3,085
These are always great fun.

I flung some ideas together - I do have the feeling I've missed something, but I don't really have time to comb the whole SRD this time. Wink

I figured it would be a Psion of some kind for the PPs, and Cleric vs Sorcerer for the SLs. I imagine the details will make the difference, though.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 6:53AM #9
TelinArtho
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Here's the entries. At the moment (see note to Eluria below), Yitzi takes the prize on the SLs - picking up that Rock Gnome base race for a freebie SL was the difference there! Also - The_Fred matched my own submission (essentially) on the PPs and takes the prize there!

Kudos to everyone - yes I was not intending pearls of power or cognizance crystals for this competition (note that cognizance crystals actually are net 0 since you need to supply your own PPs for them - so it is not "permanent")

@Eluria - if you can defend how you got 19 1st level spells with that SL submission - that is enough to win. I just don't see how you get to 19 - 6*2+3=15. Also Madness domain's insanity score only increases based on the Cleric level - so I think the score is not as large as you think.


Benchmark - SLs Show

ECL10 Gray Elf Diviner 10
Int 18 +2 levels +2 race +4 headband +3 age = 29
CWI
Headband +4
Ring of Wizardry II

Spells per day
0 - don't matter
1 - 4 +1+3 = 8 *1 (8)
2 - 4*2+1+2 = 11 *2 (22)
3 - 3 +1+2 = 6 *3 (18)
4 - 3 +1+2 = 6 *4 (24)
5 - 2 +1+2 = 5 *5 (25)

97 total.

I probably should have used a sorcerer for this - but I think anyone who went with the ring of wizardry II (and sacrificed the primary casting attribute a little) would have gotten a little more.


Benchmark - PPs Show

This is repeated several times down there:

ECL10, Phrenic Human Psion
Feats (1, H, P1, 3, P5, 6) - Psionic Talent 27 (2,3,4,5,6,7)
Int 18 +2 levels +2 template +6 headband +3 age = 31 - 40
Psion 8 - 58
Def. Precog 3/day - 21
Force Screen 1/day - 5
Empty Mind 3/day - 21
Mind Thrust 3/day - 24
Body Adjustment 1/day - 7
Brain Lock 1/day - 7
Aversion 1/day - 7
Psionic Blast 1/day - 7
Effective: 224


Uknits - SL Show

Grey Elf
Cleric 3
Conjurer 3
Mystic Theurge 4

101 SL

Really old for +3 to all mental stats

Int 18+3 age+2 race+4 item+1 level 4=28
Wis 18+3 age+4 item+1 level 8=26

Spells per day
Cleric, CL 7
1st 4+1domain+2wis=7x1=7
2nd 3+1domain+2wis=6x2=12
3rd 2+1domain+2wis=5x3=15
4th 1+1domain+2wis=4x4=16
50 sl
Wizard
1st 4+1domain+3int=8x1=8
2nd 3+1domain+2int=6x2=12
3rd 2+1domain+2int=5x3=15
4th 1+1domain+2int=4x4=16
51 sl
Items - Headband of intellect and periapt of wisdom. Use the crafting feat to have both.

Feats - Craft Wondrous Item


Eluria Show

Ok, here are submissions
Short hand:
Actual Spell level submission gets to 112 SLs
Actual Powerpoint submisison gets to 177 PPs
If you count Pearl of Powers as permanent spell sources, I can get to 191 SLs
For fun, as an effort, I can get Mystic Theurge to 108

NOTE: I AM ASSUMING Pearls of Power don't count, as otherwise you can just take 51k, craft 102 PoP Is, and have +102 SLs available.  That's probably most optimal way to get most spell levels.

Actual submission, Spell levels:
Sorceror , venerable, Make race Maenid for 5 PLs (racial energy ray) as icing on top of it
SLs = 6,6,6,5,3
18Cha+2levels+3age+6item = 29 (bonus spells: 3,2,2,2,2)
Feats: Craft wondrous item (take Eagle’s splendor as a known spell)
Ring of Wizardry I 20k (*2 first level spells)
Cloak of Cha +6 (crafted) 18k
26 PoP I (13k) (even if don’t count, not sure what else to spend monies on)

Total spells  = 19, 8, 8, 7, 5 = 19, 16, 24, 28, 25 = 112 (with 26 PoP Is = 138)

Actual submission, powerpoints:
Human psion (extra feat of psionic talent worth more pp than higher int from elf or PLA from other LA+0 races)

Int 18+2Levels+3Age+6Item=29
Feats: H, P1, P5, P10, 1,3,6,9 = 8 feats x psionic talent

(Headband Int +6, 36k)
Cognizance crystals 1pp x15 (15k)

PP: 45 Intelligence
Feat (psionic talent) x8 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9)= 44
P10=88
=177, +15 Cog Crystal pps

EXTRAS FOR TELIN
191 SLs if Pearls of Power count

if Pearls of Power count as “permanent spell levels” (which I doubt they do, but may as well try)

Sorc, venerable, race irrelevant:  18Cha +2 levels + 3 age = 23 (2, 2, 1, 1, 1)
102 PoP I crafted with 51k gold
SLs =6,6,6,5,3 + 2,2,1,1,1 = 8,8,7,6,4 = 8+16+21+24+20 = 89 SLs+ 102 PoPs= 191


(if you're counting PoPs, obviously this is my submission)

AND, for fun, not submitting, but the best I could do as Mystic Theurge: 108 SLs

Try Mystic Theurge Specialist Wiz 3/ Cler 3/MT 4
Domains: MADNESS and Either of Community (Calm Emotions, 2nd level spell, 1/d) OR Animal (Speak with animals, which is a Bard 3 spell but other 1 spell, so depends on how you count it, whether it counts as 3 SL or 1 SL – I would take this domain instead of community, if you count it as 3SLs)

Grey elf, venerable
Int 20+3 Age
Cha 18+2 Level+3 Age
Feats: CWI
Headband Int +4 (crafted) 8k
Periapt Wis +6 (crafted) 18k
Ring of Wizardry I 20k

Actual wisdom 29, with madness = 34

Spell levels:
Specialist wiz 5,4,3,2
Cleric 5,4,3,2
Int 27 bonus 2,2,2,2
Wis 34 bonus 3,3,3,3
Ring of Wiz +4 first level
Total wiz spells = 11,6,5,4
Total clr spells = 8,7,6,5
Total spell levels = 19,13,11,9 = 19+26+33+28 = 106
+domain SLA (either 2 or 3 SLs) = 2 = 108


Yitzi - SLs Show

Let's try something pretty standard:

Race: Rock Gnome (gives 1 spell level from speak with animals).

Age: Old (gives +2 CHA)

Class: Sorcerer 10

Relevant spells known: Eagle's Splendor

Relevant feats: Craft Wondrous Item

Relevant equipment: Cloak of Charisma +6 (18k, self-crafted), ring of wizardry level 1 (20k), adds up to less than the 51k available.

With 2 increases to CHA at levels 4 and 8 and a starting value of 18, that gives a total CHA of 28, for a +9 modifier, giving 3 bonus level 1 spells and 2 bonus spells of levels 2-5.

Thus, he has:
-6*2+3=15 level 1 spells
-6+2=8 spells of levels 2 and 3
-5+2=7 level 4 spells
-3+2=5 level 5 spells
For a total of 15+16+24+28+25=108 spell levels, plus the SLA makes 109.


Yitzi - PPs Show

Race: Phrenic human.
Age: Old.
Abilities: 18 base INT, +2 age, +2 template, +2 advancement, +6 for a headband of intellect makes 30 for a +10 bonus.

8 levels of psion give 58, plus 10*8/2=40 for 98.

The phrenic template comes with a host of PLAs.  Augmenting each to its maximum gives:
-3 uses of Defensive Precognition for 7pp
-1 use of Force Screen for 5pp
-3 uses of Empty Mind for 7pp
-3 uses of Mind Thrust for 8pp
-1 use of Body Adjustment for 7pp
-1 use of Brain Lock for 7pp
-1 use of Aversion for 7pp
-1 use of Psionic Blast for 7pp.

Adding this all up gives 99pp, for a total so far of 197.  If (as I suspect is not the case) each augmentable power is considered augmented up to the total theoretical augmentation (even if there's nothing to spend the extra points on), it's instead a total of 112, for 13 more total.

The character is also entitled to 6 feats (1 from his race, 2 from psion levels 1 and 5, and 3 from levels 1,3, and 6).  Spending them all on Psionic Talent gives an extra 2+3+4+5+6+7=27 pp, for a total of 224, or 237 if each augmentable PLA counts for 8 even if there isn't anything to spend the extra on.


The_Fred - PPs Show

OK well here's my shot at the weekend challenge.

Old-Aged Phrenic Human Psion 8
Abilities: 25 Int (18 + 3 Age + 2 Phrenic + 1 L4 + 1 L8)
Feats: Psionic Talent x5 (L1, L3, L6, Human, Psion 1), Craft Cognizance Crystal (Psion 5)
Items: I'm assuming powers cast from items don't count (or I'll be a Phrenic Centipede with many Boots of Stomping) but if Cognizance Crystals count, I'll have 102 1PP Crystals, crafted. (If not, I guess a Headband of Intellect +6)

PP:
58 Psion 8
28 Int 25
99 Phrenic (3/day Def Precog (7PP), Empty Mind (7PP) and Mind Thrust (8PP), 1/day Force Screen (5PP), Body Adjustment (7PP), Brain Lock (7PP), Aversion (7PP), Psionic Blast (7PP) = 99PP)
20 Psionic Talent
102 Cognizance Crystals
Total: 307PP

I guess if the Crystals aren't allowed, a Headband of Intellect +6 makes this 224PP (-102, +7 one more Psionic Talent, +12 from higher Int).


The_Fred - SLs Show

My high SLs character:

Old-Aged Human Sorcerer 7/Loremaster 3
28 Cha (18 + 3 Age + 1 L8 + 6 Cloak)
28 Int (18 + 3 Age + 1 L4 + 6 Headband)
Feats: Craft Wondrous Item
Special: Newfound Arcana, More Newfound Arcana
Spells:
L1: 6+3+1 = 10 SL
L2: 6+2+1 = 10x2 = 20 SL
L3: 6+2     =  8x3  = 24 SL
L4: 5+2     =  7x4  = 28 SL
L5: 3+2     =  5x5  = 25 SL
=  107 Total

If I'm allowed to do the same trick as before, instead take 102 Pearls of Power - it loses 13 SLs from Cha, and 2 from not being able to take More Newfound Arcana, but gains... 102. So, 194 total. I'm guessing that has to be thrown out, though, since that's more SLs from items than from the character.
The COre COliseum just hit 1000 fights! Come join the fun and be a part of this milestone! Next pairings are set for 22 August 2012. Activate TODAY!
Blue Moon Aurora is looking for some fresh blood to populate their forums. Home of the Duet and West Pacific Supers!
Check out the other PbP games around:
Real AdventuresPbP HavenThe Guild House
Garic's CityMap of the PlanesD20 Modern
Castle of FunTerisia City and Fan FictionGleemax Roleplaying
Coalition War GameParanoia ParadiseMagic Puzzles, Fun, & Games!
My List of characters for the CoCo and other ventures
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 9:03AM #10
Eluria
Date Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 3,156
Well played; these are so fun!  Rock gnome, excellent.
I can't defend the math error - you are correct; and realized the madness/mystic theurge issue after sent it, but doesn't matter; you are correct about that too.

congrats everyone! 


(my 2c - I much prefer this silent submission process!  raises the stakes, I think)
The COre COliseum is a tactics-based arena for both 3.5e and 4e D&D. We run fights each week - so join today!
Quickstart Guide
Character Sheet

The COre COliseum's first annual Prestige Competetion (ENDED) Design an ECL7-10 character incorporating prestige classes (winner is Hayrol, The Hound of Hell)

The COre COliseum's second annual Character Design Competetion CLOSED - Design an ECL4-20 character with no class levels!
(winner is The Hunter)
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