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10 months ago  ::  Aug 16, 2012 - 1:43AM #1211
voxthunder
Date Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 318
Oh, that's perfect! The Dragontaur will probably be using light armor anyways, since with an inherent +4 to dex, he could be pushing 18 pretty easily. At ECL 9, it's pretty easy to get a CL 9 Extended Mage armor for pennies on the dollar, so he wouldn't invest in Mithral Chain Shirt unless he was going for enchantments. In fact, even compared with a +1 Studded Leather Armor, you basically need to say "I'm getting a +1 Chain Shirt or better" for it to be worth it.

So a +2 Mithral Chain Shirt Barding/Armor would cost
(100 base + 1000 mithral) x 4 (large winged nonhumanoid) + 4000 (+2 enhancement) = 8400
and a +2 Studded Leather Armor would cost
(100 base + 150 MW) x 4 (large winged nonhumanoid) + 4000 = 5000
a +1 Mithral Chain Shirt would cost
(100 base + 1000 mithral) x 4 (large winged nonhumanoid) + 1000 = 5400

So it almost always seems worth it to go with the Chain Shirt, unless I guess you only wanted +4 AC, but then you might as well get the Mage Armor spellcasting.

It seems like between Lance, Composite Longbow, and just using a 0 ACP armor, the dragontaur won't need any class levels after all.
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 16, 2012 - 5:20AM #1212
TelinArtho
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One small correction on the price of armor/weapons with special materials (that include the Masterwork cost in them) - subtract the masterwork cost before the multiplier. Then after the multiplier add the Masterwork cost

So - for mithril chain shirt armor for a non-humanoid large character: 1000 -150 (Ma) = 850gp +100gp (chain shirt) = 950 * 4 = 3800gp +150gp {Ma} = 3950gp
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 16, 2012 - 5:26AM #1213
Eluria
Date Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 3,181

Aug 15, 2012 -- 7:01PM, dgallaty wrote:

Aug 15, 2012 -- 3:08PM, Eluria wrote:

or potions of mage armor and NPC services extended mage armor prebuff, if you prefer to spend the money elsewhere


another super critically awesome bonus for centaur -- you can wear horseshoes of the zephyr




I've had a centaur character that I've been toying with, and every time I think that I have him tricked out, you throw in another idea, and I have to go back and reconsider his options. Darn you to heck!




Here's my guy, Vice, I had been toying with.  I just don't like Monks or Grappling...

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10 months ago  ::  Aug 16, 2012 - 2:56PM #1214
dgallaty
Date Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Posts: 1,493

Aug 16, 2012 -- 5:26AM, Eluria wrote:

Aug 15, 2012 -- 7:01PM, dgallaty wrote:

Aug 15, 2012 -- 3:08PM, Eluria wrote:

or potions of mage armor and NPC services extended mage armor prebuff, if you prefer to spend the money elsewhere


another super critically awesome bonus for centaur -- you can wear horseshoes of the zephyr




I've had a centaur character that I've been toying with, and every time I think that I have him tricked out, you throw in another idea, and I have to go back and reconsider his options. Darn you to heck!




Here's my guy, Vice, I had been toying with.  I just don't like Monks or Grappling...




Yeah, I tried out a Monk centaur as well, but I didn't like it as much as a Monk/Psionic Fist blend, or a pure Psychic Warrior.

I like grappling (and tripping), but it's hard to do either against many of the monsters at those high ECLs. 

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10 months ago  ::  Aug 21, 2012 - 11:24AM #1215
voxthunder
Date Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 318
I've been doing some more brainstorming on the CN Travel/Chaos WilD Elf Cleric that focuses on Summoning. I think one of the biggest issues is that Summon Monster and its kin are all 1 Round cast time spells. The ability to move then cast a standard action spell is pretty nice.
The more I flesh him out, though, the more I like him. In terms of starting gear, I want to spend about 1k on MW weapons and armor, then saving most of the rest of the money for a Pearl of Power level 2. As it stands, he's going to be sitting on 1 level 2 slot, a domain slot, and a bonus slot. If he wants SMXII every fight he's going to need a Pearl of Power. Granted, he'll get a 2nd level 2 slot at ECL 4, but getting it halfway through ECL 3 would be much nicer, and the Pearl of Power will be nice to have anyways. The only issue is that if I want to get 450 gp worth of expendables in scrolls, tattoos etc, suddenly he won't be close to pearl money for some time-- probably not until he's nearly level 4. It'll still be useful for a level 4 character, but it almost seems like it might just be better to get 1st-level Pearl, or a Cloak of Resistance or even just a Wand of Bless to shore up my minions, and get the Pearl of Power later, or not at all.
Nathas likes his Pearl of Power, but his character is entirely predicated on using spells to save/die his opponents, so he needs 1-2 spell slots every fight of specific spells. Farlus mostly will be using his spells to get extra damage and give him flanks and the like, so maybe he can get by not having a level 2 Monster with him every fight.
So I guess I'm wondering if it would be worth it to go for a 2nd-level Pearl, or if I should try to make do with one of the fights in the 3FC not having an SMII slot to be used. Maybe I should just stat out everything else and this might become apparent.
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 21, 2012 - 11:35AM #1216
TelinArtho
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Having made a few summoners in my time, I'll tell you this. Until you can use SMIII on a regular basis - most of the time a win won't be gotten by summons alone. SMIII with augmented summons gives you a 5-round+ duration Huge Centipede with a decent attack bonus, 45hps and DR. On the other side, a celestial bison is a nasty brute as well.

SMII is arguably better with 1d3 SMI options because they have about the same hit rate, but with more of them they crowd control and offer flanking to each other, etc.

In other words - I would go with 1st level pearls and upgrade them when you can, and beef yourself up on other aspects for ECL3 and 4 and not focus on summons until ECL5. Clerics are great debuffers to start with, so you just need enough offense to counter the degraded opponent.
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 21, 2012 - 11:42AM #1217
Uknits
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 2,982
I agree that focusing too much on level 2 doesn't seem wise when you short yourself short term and also when level 2 will become obsolete over time.  You seem capable in combat, but I like to look at the roster of active characters and see what I'll face and see what weaknesses need fixing when purchasing.

On a side note, I'm making a ranger/rogue mageslayer and I was curious about somthing.  Does search work with track, or is it just survival?  Also, if I qualify for the scout skill package with search, can I use survival, or only the sill I have 5+ ranks ins? 
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 21, 2012 - 11:50AM #1218
voxthunder
Date Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 318
It looks to me like either Search OR Survival is needed, plus Use Rope. Then, your bonus is determined based on Knowledge (Geography).

Spoiler: Show
Survival or Search (vs Track DC)
  • Use Rope (vs Escape Artist)
  • Knowledge (Geography)



You have to pass the Track DC (Indoor: Dc15; Outdoor: Dc10; plus modifiers on PHB p101 or [1]). Your Use Rope value must be higher than your opponent's Escape Artist. You need at least 5 ranks in each skill.


you'll get 1 prebuff round for every 5 points of knowledge geo.
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 21, 2012 - 12:20PM #1219
Uknits
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 2,982
My question, though, is that if I have under 5 ranks in survival but 5 ranks in search, would I stil get to use survival to find their tracks?  Also, if I have the track feat, could I use track on search?
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 21, 2012 - 1:23PM #1220
voxthunder
Date Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 318
I believe you can fully substitute Search in place of Survival. Search can be used for Track, it just can't be used to follow the tracks-- it can only find them. In the description of the Skill Package it also has an "or" between Search and Survival. I don't see any indication that Survival is neccessary, though I could be wrong.

Also, you can't survival or search against DCs greater than 10 unless you have the Track feat (which you should get as a ranger).
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