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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 10:03PM #1
Vathelokai
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Date Joined: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 809
A couple times I've tried bulding a character around thrown weapons.  Now I'm at it again.

Here's what I'm looking at...

human ranger 1/cleric  1 (air, magic)/ranger 1/figher 1 (not sure after that)
feats: 2 weapon fighting, quickdraw, rapid shot, point blank, far shot
equipment: efficient quiver and javelins, bola, nets; lots of alch. fire, acid, and holy water; custom thrown alchemical or magical items.

So here come the questions:

Can I throw multiple alchemist fires per round?
Can I use credits to buy alchemist fire or vials of acid of different energy type?
Would I need a custom version of efficient quiver to hold/use alch. fire, bolas, nets, and thrown magic items?
Using these feats/BAB, can you throw multiple animals from a bag of tricks each round?
Using these feats/BAB, can you throw multiple fireballs from a necklace of fireballs each round (also, deck of illusions, dust of illusion, soverign glue, etc.)? Alternately, if I had multiple of each item, could I throw one from each item in a round?
For credits, could I get necklace of fireballs with only one orb on them (assuming there is an agreed on calculation for it)? 
Can a custom necklace of fireballs have other area effect spells (bane, burning hands, grease, entangle, faerie fire, etc.)?
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 2:44AM #2
The_Fred
Date Joined: Jan 4, 2012
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Mar 26, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Vathelokai wrote:

For credits, could I get necklace of fireballs with only one orb on them (assuming there is an agreed on calculation for it)? 



There is - I think it's just the sum of all the individual Fireballs, which cost according to caster level.

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 5:42AM #3
TelinArtho
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Mar 26, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Vathelokai wrote:


So here come the questions:

Can I throw multiple alchemist fires per round?




If you have them in hand - yes. Unfortunately, Alchemist Fire/Tanglefoot bags/Acid/Holy Water are not weapons or weapon-like objects - so you can't quickdraw them.

Can I use credits to buy alchemist fire or vials of acid of different energy type?




that's probably a discussion unto its own. I'm inclined to say no - but only because I don't like adding items whole-cloth. We could have a discussion in the Council about it if you like.

Would I need a custom version of efficient quiver to hold/use alch. fire, bolas, nets, and thrown magic items?




Technically, since we don't worry about how you actually carry items, you wouldn't need an efficient quiver-like item unless you wanted some way to reduce your carried weight. If that's the goal though, I don't know if we could allow it - again this would be creating an item whole-cloth.

Using these feats/BAB, can you throw multiple animals from a bag of tricks each round?



No - activating a magic item like this is a standard action.

Using these feats/BAB, can you throw multiple fireballs from a necklace of fireballs each round (also, deck of illusions, dust of illusion, soverign glue, etc.)? Alternately, if I had multiple of each item, could I throw one from each item in a round?



No again - activating a magic item is a standard action.

For credits, could I get necklace of fireballs with only one orb on them (assuming there is an agreed on calculation for it)?



If there is a formula for it - yes we could come up with credits for it (5 credits - same item type with different "bonus"). I haven't checked for a formula - but if there is one, knock yourself out.

Can a custom necklace of fireballs have other area effect spells (bane, burning hands, grease, entangle, faerie fire, etc.)?



We already have these kinds of things with the "tokens" that people pick up with Gather information.

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 6:41AM #4
Vathelokai
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Mar 27, 2012 -- 5:42AM, TelinArtho wrote:


Mar 26, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Vathelokai wrote:


Can I throw multiple alchemist fires per round?



If you have them in hand - yes. Unfortunately, Alchemist Fire/Tanglefoot bags/Acid/Holy Water are not weapons or weapon-like objects - so you can't quickdraw them.



I think my problem here is that thrown weapons are not considered weapons in this sense. Seems kind of counter-intuitive to me. Is this from FAQ/Errata?


Mar 27, 2012 -- 5:42AM, TelinArtho wrote:


Mar 26, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Vathelokai wrote:


Can I use credits to buy alchemist fire or vials of acid of different energy type?



that's probably a discussion unto its own. I'm inclined to say no - but only because I don't like adding items whole-cloth. We could have a discussion in the Council about it if you like.



I was thinking this thread would be a sort of pre-discussion, where I could gather something more factual before going to court/council.


Mar 27, 2012 -- 5:42AM, TelinArtho wrote:


Mar 26, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Vathelokai wrote:


Would I need a custom version of efficient quiver to hold/use alch. fire, bolas, nets, and thrown magic items?



Technically, since we don't worry about how you actually carry items, you wouldn't need an efficient quiver-like item unless you wanted some way to reduce your carried weight. If that's the goal though, I don't know if we could allow it - again this would be creating an item whole-cloth.



The only note here is that getting items from quiver counts as drawing ammo, and getting items from haversack is a move action.  If thown weapons can become weaponlike for the purposes of quickdraw, it would make a difference.


Mar 27, 2012 -- 5:42AM, TelinArtho wrote:


Mar 26, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Vathelokai wrote:


Using these feats/BAB, can you throw multiple animals from a bag of tricks each round?



No - activating a magic item like this is a standard action.



Presumeably custom magic items with a free action activation time (e.g., vial of touch of fatigue) could be allowed (though preposterously expensive)?

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 7:35AM #5
The_Fred
Date Joined: Jan 4, 2012
Posts: 3,087

Mar 27, 2012 -- 5:42AM, TelinArtho wrote:


Can a custom necklace of fireballs have other area effect spells (bane, burning hands, grease, entangle, faerie fire, etc.)?



We already have these kinds of things with the "tokens" that people pick up with Gather information.



A related question: you can get a use-activated item of any spell, but you can't buy multiples with one use of Use Blackmarket Connections, right? How then would something like the necklace be treated? It's effectively multiple small items which are simply carried by a string. Could I have a charm bracelet or string of tokens which is effectively just a set of single-use items acquired via Gather Info?

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 8:09AM #6
Vathelokai
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I think that they are of the same type, then yes (custom item based on necklace of fireballs). If they are of different types, then each would be a different custom item.  As for the charm bracelet, that's just a method of stowing them, so I think it's a flavor element.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 8:27AM #7
TelinArtho
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Re: Efficient Quiver

SRD, Magic Items V, Efficient Quiver wrote:

Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can produce any item she wishes, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard




This doesn't mean that all items are produced from the quiver as if it was ammunition, but as if it was drawn as per normal. So a javelin is still a move action, an arrow is still a free action.

Re: Items with faster casting times

I am reluctant to approve that type of item because we get quickly into the area of if you have a lot of credits - you can abuse it. If you don't have a lot of credits you can't. Combine this with the fact that quickened spells still have a maximum of one per round (and then being able to cast a regular casting-time spell separately) and this means I would not be too keen on seeing a guy throw 5-6 orbs of quickened burning hands at opponents in a single round.

Re: Thrown Weapons as "weaponlike"

To be clear here, thrown weapons are "weaponlike." Javelins, Spears, Throwing axes, Darts, bolas, nets - etc. What are not "weaponlike" are grenade-like items - Acid, Alchemist fire, Tanglefoot bag, holy water and thunderstones. Wands and Dorjes are weaponlike as well.

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 8:51AM #8
Vathelokai
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Date Joined: Jun 23, 2005
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Re: effficient quiver
I see that I misread that.

Re: quickened items
That sounds reasonable and appropriate. 

Re: grenades and 'weaponlike'
Thank you for clarifying.
I'm not automatically disagreeing, I'm just wondering where the ruling came from.   Couldn't find anything in the FAQ.
Starting to sound like daggers of spell storing would be a more rule friendly way of accomplishing my goal.

Re: lots of posting
Still on vacation and enjoying the ability to spend a few hours online. 
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Why do you resist?



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