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4 months ago ::
Jan 28, 2013 - 5:16AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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Now that we've seen that Sundering art, we know two things for sure: Farideh and Dahl are not going to die in this book! (Or if they do, they'll be resurrected or something...) Still, there are a lot of characters here on both sides. Someone has to get it, right? Odds anyone?
I don't know about you, but I'd like an invitation to this party at Rhand's house. Something is bound to go horribly wrong...
This forum will cover Chapters 7-9, pages 113-176.
Looking forward to your thoughts, as always!
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4 months ago ::
Jan 28, 2013 - 10:27AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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I do love a good resurrection spell...
Starting with this section I can share some of the things I was biting my tongue about before. I'll try and space them out so I don't slam a huge text block on the thread. But let's start with Adolican Rhand and the revel.
Adolican Rhand is the only character I hate. He's the only villain I've written into the Realms who I would classify as a "monster"--I don't understand him. I don't want to understand him. I don't want you to understand him. He's just bad. This is a bit of a change up for me, as I tend to want to write about villains that you can identify with in some way.
He didn't exist when I started this book. Originally, my plan was to focus on the interpersonal conflicts between the protagonists and the bigger, more distant conflicts between the larger powers. In that case, the "big bad" was Shade. But having a far-off evil empire as your villain lacks immediacy. It's hard to be scared of something when you only see little fleeting bits of it (so far...). So I figured I needed someone to stand in for the threat of Shade.
Originally, Rhand appeared only in what would become the revel scene--which at the time was an auction. Tam confronted him, they exchanged implications that they knew the other's secret identity (so to speak), Rhand won, and then all hell breaks loose.
He was not remotely scary.
Frustrated, I sat down with a colleague and explained my situation. She and I brainstormed things that were scary about Shade--if he was a stand-in for Shade, then Adolican Rhand ought to reflect what it is that is scary about Shade. And what called out to me is the fact that Shade is entitled. They were Netheril, for the gods' sakes--they were an empire and they're entitled to that empire once more. And they do not care who's in the way of that or what their opinions on the matter are. Which, when applied to an individual, reminded me of a certain sort of fellow who is pretty damned scary.
After that conversation, I went back and slipped him into the rest of the story, then wrote the revel scene, which flowed so much better than when it was an auction. THe only trouble? I had a really hard time making Farideh drink that zzar. Because I knew better, so she should know better, right? But I think that's one of those things you have to break yourself of in writing: Characters are going to do things that look dumb because the reader knows better, but they're perfectly reasonable to the character. And since Farideh has never been through freshmen year orientation, I don't think she ought to expect to be magic-roofied.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 28, 2013 - 3:22PM
#3
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I likened Rhand to that rich oily business man that hits the gym regularly and is viewed as a "social blessing" among society,but what few know is he's a scum bag that spots woman in bars,chats them up,drops a roofie in their drink and does very dirty and terrible things to them when he get's them home.
In a way I "got" him even if I didn't particularly like him lol. He's a very well written P.o.S that is striving,grasping and seeking to grown in Shade's heirarchy,but also nuttier then squirrel poo on a peanut farm!
I was trying to figure out what particular roofie he slipped her though cause damn it hit her like a small meteor!
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4 months ago ::
Jan 28, 2013 - 8:56PM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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I was trying to figure out what particular roofie he slipped her though cause damn it hit her like a small meteor!
It's honestly nothing I found in a sourcebook. Perhaps its something he makes. Perhaps it's something sourced from Laerakond/Returned Abeir. But it does hit her extra hard since she's all dosed up on Tam's sedative tea and full of hells-powers. They don't go together.
I imagine that people do think he's unsettling--not everyone, certainly not the sort of people that are dazzled by fancy parties--but they don't really want to be the one to deal with it. Especially since he's careful not to get caught at anything.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 5:01AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2012
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Ermahgerd, we can talk about that karshoji henish; Rhand, now?
D< !!!!
First I must commend you on creating such a slimey P.O.S. villian.
BRIGHT NOTES!!
I loved the scene where Fari asked Havi about taking a pact, it was a sweet moment between them, I think?
Fari learning rituals from Dahl is cool.
Off to adventure!! Excited for everything that is to come in the next chapters.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 10:48AM
#6
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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Oops! I think I have to keep biting my tongue. I thought something happened that hasn't yet. What else did I promise I'd tell you about? In keeping with last round, I think my extra-art wish so far would be the girls in their party gear. 
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 1:14PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2012
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In keeping with last round, I think my extra-art wish so far would be the girls in their party gear.
THIS! so much this! WOTC needs to have someone do this PRONTO!
<.< along with another dozen characters and scenes I have wanted to see in artwork over the years.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 2:49PM
#8
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Well now, wasn't this an interesting group of chapters. In fact I got so into the story that I didn't notice I was over-shooting until I saw the "Chapter Eleven" title... so I will have to keep my trap shut about Chapter 10. Chapters 7-9 were good and interesting though. The Revel scene was a nice mix of the build-up and the frantic. I really liked the effect of Fari's powers just erupting out of her, that she had to keep casting (or thought she did) to keep from exploding. It was a really nice touch to keep the poisoning from feeling too... pedestrian. I did wonder about Rhand though. Of course I wanted to drop him into a hole when he said "my latest aquisition" to Fari... a deep one. With spikes. And leeches. Havi and her new Mentor. I know that Havi is about as naturally insightful as a brick, and a thick one, but for the love of Mother Mystra even she should know better. That one was skirting the believability line with me, I almost expected Havi to be acting, shamming or being sarcastic. Not even Havi "It's ok, he's in the circle" Devilslayer strikes me as being that dumb. Mira is an interesting character, though I have suspicions where she is going with that... and talking of going places, the company that woman keeps! Still, I know what they say about beggars and choosers... Still, with the minor exception of my suspension of disbelief wearing a little thin at that one Havi-based point, another three (four) superb chapters! In keeping with last round, I think my extra-art wish so far would be the girls in their party gear.
I just want an illustrated edition! I am not talking about single images. I would like to see pivotal scenes (even just the interpersonal ones) interspersed throughout the book.
My approach to the NPCs of previous editions. Spoiler:
Show
I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads. "It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 9:34AM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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Well now, wasn't this an interesting group of chapters. In fact I got so into the story that I didn't notice I was over-shooting until I saw the "Chapter Eleven" title... so I will have to keep my trap shut about Chapter 10.
I live for this sort of admission. (It's a close second to "until I saw that it was 3 a.m")
Chapters 7-9 were good and interesting though. The Revel scene was a nice mix of the build-up and the frantic. I really liked the effect of Fari's powers just erupting out of her, that she had to keep casting (or thought she did) to keep from exploding. It was a really nice touch to keep the poisoning from feeling too... pedestrian.
Ooh--here's a technical note for any writers/aspiring writers in the room: this scene is a nice example (IMO) of breaking rules to gain an effect. It uses passive voice and "willful body parts" (where the hands or eyes or what have you are acting as if on their own)--both of which you are often told to never use--to create distance between Farideh and what's happening to her. And that distance hopefully creates a sort of dreamlike, out of control feeling.
Havi and her new Mentor. I know that Havi is about as naturally insightful as a brick, and a thick one, but for the love of Mother Mystra even she should know better. That one was skirting the believability line with me, I almost expected Havi to be acting, shamming or being sarcastic. Not even Havi "It's ok, he's in the circle" Devilslayer strikes me as being that dumb.
I'm always hesitant to start this sort of discussion--if you weren't doing book club, it's not like I could lean over your shoulder and explain what I really meant! But then I figure that's why you are doing book club. But if I'm wrong about that, pardon me. Disagreeing with readers about what is ultimately their experience, always feels weird to me
In Havi's defense:
1. She's grown up "dragonborn." That is Mehen, like his very traditional family, thinks of the gods as nuisances more than anything. Obviously it would be a stretch to call Tymantheran culture "atheist" (when the gods are more than willing to pop down and introduce themselves, it's a little silly), but they're definitely Not Impressed. I'm pretty sure Mehen's take on it is akin to someone passing a panhandler--don't pay any attention to them or they'll decide to bother you every time you pass by here until you've emptied your wallet. And knowing Havi, I think that would translate into one of two reactions: completely tuning out anything remotely religious or being dangerously curious about it.
2. She's grown up around tieflings who were very concerned about her turning evil--and very concerned about not appearing evil themselves. If she ever asked, "Who's Bane?" there were half a dozen people around to say "DON'T ASK THAT!" and probably punish her. This is, in essence, not something it's fun to be curious about. I would posit that she opted to be interested in more earthly matters.
3. (This is less Havi's failing, but connected!) Pernika's tattoo is specifically the black fist from 3.x. The 4E symbol is a bone claw. I picked the fist because I like it better, but also because Pernika's not stupid enough to have a common symbol of a dark god on her. And it's worked into what are essentially full-sleeve tattoos. So unless you're looking for it, and you're up on what is basically an outdated symbol to the rest of the world, you won't know what it is.
4. She has a non-sexual crush on Pernika. And it's hard to hear bad things--especially confusing bad things--about the people we're crushing on.
In keeping with last round, I think my extra-art wish so far would be the girls in their party gear.
I just want an illustrated edition! I am not talking about single images. I would like to see pivotal scenes (even just the interpersonal ones) interspersed throughout the book.
I have to admit, I think it would make a nice manga.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 10:14AM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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Ermahgerd, we can talk about that karshoji henish; Rhand, now?
D< !!!!
First I must commend you on creating such a slimey P.O.S. villian.
BRIGHT NOTES!!
I loved the scene where Fari asked Havi about taking a pact, it was a sweet moment between them, I think?
Fari learning rituals from Dahl is cool.
Off to adventure!! Excited for everything that is to come in the next chapters.
I like that scene because it gives Havilar the chance to take care of Farideh. Which she doesn't always get to do.
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