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It looks like all Shadowbane's enemies are coming out of the woodwork in Westgate.  Let's see how much longer he can keep his head above water...

This forum will cover Part 3: Chapters 9-12.

Looking forward to your thoughts, as always. 

For me, the story got really exciting in this section.  You've got Kalen and Levia off to find the other Shadowbane, and you have Ilira, Myrin, Brace, and the deva (whose name is slipping my mind) off on some mission to discover Myrin's memories.

It's interesting.  Again in this section, I find the Ilira plot more exciting than the Shadowbane plot, maybe because she's got the whole Myrin mystery tied in with her now.  I was surprised to see the Dragonborn bodyguard killed and I thought his death wish was touching.  Ilira has a Rogue (from X-men) power, but almost worse.  Their descent into the Night Masks lair really delved into Realms history and has me on the edge of my seat (or whatever the reading equivalent is).  Interesting that Ilira said she can touch vampires. I wonder if there's any connection here to Kire...

At this point, there's too many characters for someone not to pull the double cross, so who is it?  Levia? Ilira? Brace? the deva?  It's difficult to tell at this point, and I think there's more to this Rhett mystery than meets the eye.

I also found the romance in this section intriguing.  Some people might find this a little too much, but I for one enjoy Eric's dash of romance in his books.  Romance is one of the most difficult things to write.  I think it's believable that while Myrin is still discovering who she is, her romantic feelings are stirring as much as anything else.

I'll come right out and say that I didn't enjoy Shadowbane quite as much as Downshadow, but if this section is any indicator, I think I'm going to really enjoy Eye of Justice as it moves forward.

Of course, it could have something to do with that Trickster who just came back on the scene...

Yep. There is definitely a lot of build up in this section. You just feel like there is a major confrontation right around the corner, and based on how Chapter 12 ended, I don't think we will have to wait long.

I agree with Dado that a double cross almost seems inevitable now, but there are so many people who could potentially do the double crossing that it could be hidden just by the sheer volume of possibilities. I would need a dry erase board to chart out all of the posibilities. I really am looking forward to seeing who ultimately turns out to be the enemy form within, and yes there is a still an evil little voice inside of me that is hoping it turns out to be Myrin.

The romance in the story doesn't bother me at all. I think the saturation level is at a good point, meaning there isn't so much that I find myself wanting to skip over dialogues between Myrin and Kalen, but there is enough to help the reader understand motivations and some of the decisions that the characters make. My one concern might be how long it seems to drag out. I could see where readers would lose interest just because we are about half way through the 3rd book and it doesn't seem like the romantic tension will be resolved anytime soon. Perhaps this is all part of Erik's plan to catch us off guard when he does resolve it....or maybe it never resolves.

I liked Downshadow and Shadowbane equally...I know I know...that's a bit cowardly. I really did feel like they were two completely different stories. I felt that Downshadow had a lot of mystery and intrigue and I felt like Shadowbane was more of a typical good vs evil adventure story. If I did not know that Erik had written both books I might have guessed that it was part of a series where each book was a different author, like War of the Spider Queen. I am very curious to know if it was just me or if others got a different feeling between the two books as well. Perhaps it is because I was able to sit down and read Shadowbane cover to cover and didn't have to break it up to keep to the schedule of the book club, that it had a different feel to it.

Very interested to see what is about to happen to Myrin, Ilira, Brace, and Rujia next.

By the way, does anyone else find themselves comparing Rujia (the Deva) to Michone from The Walking Dead? I can't explain why but that is almost how I would picture her character...minus the obvious differences between a Deva and a Human. Re-reading that sentence I now realize it made absolutely no sense. The jury can disregard.

I definitely get what you're saying with the two books.  I think Shadowbane had a very Gangs of New York feel to it, which Erik has said was a major influence for him on that book.  I actually think some of that same feel carried over in Westgate with the gang tensions.  I liked both books, don't get me wrong, but I think what tips the scale a little for me might be the supporting cast.  We had Fayne, Ilira, and Kalen's original love interest (can't remember her name - she was part of the watch) along with her friend, and I thought all of those secondary characters were done really well.  We also got the first glimpses of Myrin and also had Rath who was a great villian.  We got Rhett in Shadowbane and Sithe (one of Erik's awsomest creations), but more of that story was simply about Kalen.  I also think the whole Abyssal Plague plot (which in my opinion was a little underwhelming as a whole) may have derailed the main Shadowbane storyline a little.  Second books are also notoriously hard.  It could also be that as a setting, Waterdeep just has so much more to offer than Luskan because of its rich history.  Even the little details like the broadsheet tabloids in Downshadow made the book feel current but still deeply rooted in the Realms.  I think that's where Erik can really blow away the competition - when he's writing stories that feel so fresh and different from other Realms novels but are still deeply rooted in the lore of the Realms.  We're getting that here in Eye again, which has me very excited.  When Erik is hitting his sweet spot, you feel like you're reading something by a true Realms sage while at the same time watching a really good contemporary TV/movie plot, something like LOST or Once Upon a Time (the first season - the second season has been a little all over the place).

Nov 13, 2012 -- 1:27PM, dadocollin wrote:

For me, the story got really exciting in this section.  You've got Kalen and Levia off to find the other Shadowbane, and you have Ilira, Myrin, Brace, and the deva (whose name is slipping my mind) off on some mission to discover Myrin's memories.

Rujia is the name you're looking for. And yes, there will be a confrontation--though not necessarily the one you expect.

I was surprised to see the Dragonborn bodyguard killed and I thought his death wish was touching.

I'm glad you had that reaction to it. It's definitely a difficult emotional moment. 

Ilira has a Rogue (from X-men) power, but almost worse. Interesting that Ilira said she can touch vampires. I wonder if there's any connection here to Kire...

I liken Ilira's power to being more like that of Wither (originally a X-Men hero, but eventually a villain). Rogue's strength-draining touch is a side effect of her main thing (which is stealing powers), but Wither's ability is just to destroy organic material at a touch. Ilira's spellscar/curse is to harm living things--her touch has no effect on dead flesh (like vampires). 

Their descent into the Night Masks lair really delved into Realms history and has me on the edge of my seat (or whatever the reading equivalent is).

I had the Lords of Darkness book open next to me while I wrote that scene. The place they go is an actual adventure site in the book.

At this point, there's too many characters for someone not to pull the double cross, so who is it?  Levia? Ilira? Brace? the deva?  It's difficult to tell at this point, and I think there's more to this Rhett mystery than meets the eye.

Multiple treacheries. I look forward to seeing how you like what happens.

I also found the romance in this section intriguing.  Some people might find this a little too much, but I for one enjoy Eric's dash of romance in his books.  Romance is one of the most difficult things to write.  I think it's believable that while Myrin is still discovering who she is, her romantic feelings are stirring as much as anything else.

I do try to keep it secondary, though it is important to the characters. I do want to get away from the "Kalen and Myrin are destined for each other" thing. While yes, that's clearly a significant part of the story, I want it clear that they're both their own independent characters, and if they're going to end up together, it's because they choose to work at it. Fate isn't just going to put them together.

Of course, it could have something to do with that Trickster who just came back on the scene...

Indeed. Who do you think the Trickster is, by the way? Do you have a theory?

Nov 14, 2012 -- 9:24AM, Mordrim wrote:

Yep. There is definitely a lot of build up in this section. You just feel like there is a major confrontation right around the corner, and based on how Chapter 12 ended, I don't think we will have to wait long.

Oh yes. Two battles. You'll see.

And I love how you guys are debating whether Downshadow or Shadowbane is the better book. Maybe ultimately this one will emerge as the unexpected victor.

I liked Downshadow and Shadowbane equally...I know I know...that's a bit cowardly.

Not cowardly at all! I'm glad you liked 'em both.

By the way, does anyone else find themselves comparing Rujia (the Deva) to Michone from The Walking Dead? I can't explain why but that is almost how I would picture her character...minus the obvious differences between a Deva and a Human. Re-reading that sentence I now realize it made absolutely no sense. The jury can disregard.

I love The Walking Dead series (particularly the comics, but the show is fun too), and I will happily accept the compliment. They have a couple of traits in common--they're both strong silent types, both kick-ass ladies with swords, and you're never quite sure what either of them is thinking.

Nov 14, 2012 -- 10:27AM, dadocollin wrote:

I definitely get what you're saying with the two books.  I think Shadowbane had a very Gangs of New York feel to it, which Erik has said was a major influence for him on that book.  I actually think some of that same feel carried over in Westgate with the gang tensions.

It's true. Gangs of New York was indeed a major influence, as was Batman: No Man's Land. A mash-up of those two (plus magic) is usually how I describe it to people. 

Even the little details like the broadsheet tabloids in Downshadow made the book feel current but still deeply rooted in the Realms.  I think that's where Erik can really blow away the competition - when he's writing stories that feel so fresh and different from other Realms novels but are still deeply rooted in the lore of the Realms.  We're getting that here in Eye again, which has me very excited.  When Erik is hitting his sweet spot, you feel like you're reading something by a true Realms sage while at the same time watching a really good contemporary TV/movie plot, something like LOST or Once Upon a Time (the first season - the second season has been a little all over the place).

Have you considered posting a review of the novel? Because this is GLOWING.

Cheers

There were some very strong hints that the Trickster is a certain female shape-shifting love interest of Kalen's from Downshadow...  I completely missed the connection the first time she appeared, but she all but gave it away in her conversation with Hessar.

I always mean to write reviews and then I don't get around to it and forget what I want to say, but I obviously remember enough about Downshadow, so I will write up a review!  

As a note, if you see my other reviews in the community, they are generally reviews for books that Wizards sent me to review.  I'm a total mercenary.  And now that I think about it, I don't think I have any Erik Scott de Bie autographs!  Do you do the bookplate thing? (Both Rosemary and Jaleigh do this - basically just send you a signed bookplate if you email them asking for one.)

I am with Dado regarding the Trickster. I am thinking it wa Fayne but didn't come to that conclusion until the conversation with Hessar. I was reading the book waiting for her to make an appearance. Especially if she ends up helping to turn Myrin to the darkside.

Nov 14, 2012 -- 2:17PM, Mordrim wrote:

I am with Dado regarding the Trickster. I am thinking it wa Fayne but didn't come to that conclusion until the conversation with Hessar. I was reading the book waiting for her to make an appearance. Especially if she ends up helping to turn Myrin to the darkside.

Don't give up on those hopes, Mordrim! You know how much I love all my characters.

Cheers

First of all, I would like to add my voice to the Book Plate thing--not sure how hard setting up the Kindlegraph is, but I really do enjoy having them!

The romance in this book has a very **** vibe to it--the overt, over the top male dandy sexuality of the Gnome and the lesbian undertone to MOST of the female relationships. I am really glad to see this in a fantasy book--makes it much more fun to read the romance parts for me. I would love to see some of the Gay Batman tropes thrown at Shadowbane, but the way this one is going--I do not see that happening. At all.

And I really like where this one is going--I think that the number of characters in this book is interesting--it feels like a lot more than what we had in the previous books--the ability to whip a party of four up and charge the Vampires really captured how intereconnected all of these characters are.

And the Vampire hunting stuff, with the quick cuts to Shadowbane battling, was some of the best stuff I have read in a very long time--very edge of the seat and exciting.

Who is the Trickster? I have really no idea--at this point the blind butler would make just about as much sense as anyone else--I am sure to be suprised & sure I will love it.  Thanks, David S.

Nov 28, 2012 -- 4:09PM, davidgiven wrote:

First of all, I would like to add my voice to the Book Plate thing--not sure how hard setting up the Kindlegraph is, but I really do enjoy having them!

I'm looking into it when I have the chance.

The romance in this book has a very **** vibe to it--the overt, over the top male dandy sexuality of the Gnome and the lesbian undertone to MOST of the female relationships. I am really glad to see this in a fantasy book--makes it much more fun to read the romance parts for me.

Heh, well, I'm not sure what **** means, but yeah, I'll confess there's some romance in this book. Brace is indeed intended to be a dandy sort of character--he basically hits on everything in sight. I definitely intended the romantic chemistry between Ilira and Myrin and between Myrin and Rujia. It's a sexy sort of book.

I would love to see some of the Gay Batman tropes thrown at Shadowbane, but the way this one is going--I do not see that happening. At all.

I suppose it depends on how you read it. A case could be made for the Rhett + Kalen relationship in the previous novel . . . and I guess we'll see what happens here.

And I really like where this one is going--I think that the number of characters in this book is interesting--it feels like a lot more than what we had in the previous books--the ability to whip a party of four up and charge the Vampires really captured how intereconnected all of these characters are.

I have this drive to write ensemble pieces. It's a thing.

And the Vampire hunting stuff, with the quick cuts to Shadowbane battling, was some of the best stuff I have read in a very long time--very edge of the seat and exciting.

Glad you liked it. How did you feel about the balance of it? Did you feel more involved in one fight or the other?

Who is the Trickster? I have really no idea--at this point the blind butler would make just about as much sense as anyone else--I am sure to be suprised & sure I will love it.

Knowing me, odds are it's someone who has appeared before, though that doesn't necessarily narrow it down--since there have been two other books, a novella, and three short stories about Shadowbane.

Cheers