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12 months ago ::
Jun 18, 2012 - 5:11AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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Well here we are again at the end of another great Book Club discussion (one of the best ever, I might add). I can't wait to find out what happens to Farideh and the rest of the characters. The sequel can't come soon enough! This forum will cover: Chapters 17-20 and the Epilogue, pages 293-339. This is also the place for your final thoughts on the book. A huge thank you to Erin for answering each and every one of our questions. And a special thank you to Idris for keeping mommy up all day and night so she had nothing better to do than respond to the Book Club.  Remember, there are plenty of ways you can thank our authors for their participation like recommending the book to a friend, buying a copy for your next birthday or holiday gift, or writing up a review and posting it to Amazon, Goodreads, etc. For those of you wondering where we're going next, we'll be reading Jaleigh Johnson's Mistshore. Plan on starting after the 4th of July week. Jaleigh wanted to let you all know that if you want this novel in paperback to get it soon. It's going (gone) out of print and may be hard to find. ( Mistshore will still be available in one of the Waterdeep omnibuses and as an ebook.) The other exciting news it that Mistshore will have a sequel coming out in December (tentatively) titled Spider and Stone which will have to do with the drow in the Realms. I'm looking forward to everyone's final thoughts on Brimstone Angels, and thanks to all who participated!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 19, 2012 - 5:40AM
#2
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So I just finished and I can not wait for Lesser Evils. Erin did a terrific job of leaving the readers wanting more!! It reminded me of watching the TV show "24". At the end of each episode you were dying to know what was coming next.
I know that pacing is a topic that seems to keep coming back up in a few of the sections we read, and it seems to me that this last section is the quickest moving of them all. I managed to get through the whole section on my lunch break at work and I was actually a little sad that I had finished it. It's kind of like eating your dessert too fast and then watching all of the people that still have some left to enjoy.
So Erin decided to tease us a little bit with Brin. We do get a big revelation about him at the end of the book, but I feel like it actually creates more mystery around Brin. Oh well, just one more reason that I will be looking forward to Lesser Evils.
Does everyone remember who Constancia is? I have to admit, I had completely forgotten about her and then lo and behold, she makes her entrance. I can't really point out what it was about this scene in the book but I really felt like it was one of the best written parts. I don't have any technical background in literature at all so it is hard to explain, but I really was able to feel the mood shift during this scene. When Constancia first arrives you get this feeling of dread a little bit. It was almost as if the party had gone through all of this struggle and conflict, against near hopeless odds, and survived, only to catch a bad break when Constancia finally catches up to them. Then as the tables get turned on Constancia, I actually was almost able to see smiles start to creep into the corners of Fari, Havi, and Brin's mouths. It really was a pretty gratifying scene for me and it made me chuckle.
I loved the scene that takes place back in the hells, where Glasya is holding people accountable for their actions, and then daddy shows up. There was a really great sense of drama and tension and I was wondering what would become of Lorcan, even though we know he is in the next book. That tension seems to lessen once his fate become known, but then Glasya "speaks" to him again, and that sense of foreboding returns. It's like you thought he was going to get off easy and then reality kicks him in the teeth.
Glasya's last words to Lorcan are worth the price of the book alone!!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 19, 2012 - 12:37PM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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I'm sad to see the Book Club wind up! It's been such a good conversation! Thanks to dadocollin for running the posts, and to everyone who came along to read and discuss. As dado said, word of mouth is critical for books these days. If you enjoyed Brimstone Angels, I would encourage you to review it on Amazon, Goodreads, Shelfari, or even your own blog. Let a friend know it's worth a read (or even let them borrow your copy!). I have a lot of ideas for these characters, and the more people who want to read about him, the more books I'm likely to get the chance to write! As before I'm curious about your thoughts on this section, but also the book as a whole, and I'm wondering: 1. If you game, was there anything about this book that inspired you to game differently? (E.g. new character? New threat for your players? New locale?) 2.If you've played with the Neverwinter game materials (or even just read Salvatore's trilogy) did you feel like Brimstone Angels enhanced that experience? 3. This book has a bit of a nontraditional protagonist in a couple of ways. I've definitely heard concerns that a non-human character is too much for readers to get behind, and a teenaged girl is off-putting to male readers. Did either of these things provide a barrier to you? What do you think of this truism? 4. How mad are you that I didn't answer the question of Brin?  (I may add more when I think of good questions!)
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 1:39PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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First off, I agree with Mordrim that the ending was great and the pacing of the entire novel was spot on. As some of you know, I tend to get annoyed at blatant attempts to set up a sequel in a book that may not end up having a sequel, but I think Brimstone Angels sets a good balance at the end. I actually hadn't forgotten about ol' Constancia and was waiting for her to show up. I also agree that Glasya's last words to Lorcan were a great touch. To me, that whole scene was Glasya in a nutshell, and it can be difficult to portray these larger than life deities and archdevils.
I'll frame my other comments in terms of Erin's questions:
1. I don't know if this book made me want to go out and quest in Neverwinter, but I love how the book felt very 4th edition and "fresh" as far as D&D novels go. I've said the same thing about Downshadow (by Eric Scott de Bie) and Erin's other book, The Godcatcher, and part of me feels there's a changing of the guard taking place with the D&D authors. Not that I don't love the big guns (Salvatore, Greenwood, Kemp, Byers, etc.) or established genre authors like Tim Pratt or Jeff Marriotte, but it's refreshing to see authors like Erin, Eric, Jaleigh, and Rosemary Jones that have come into the game mainly through the D&D line and are establishing a new voice for that line. To answer the real question, this book made me want to pick a class (like warlock) and actually come up with a vibrant backstory for a character that explains something like an infernal pact and how it happened, not just "hey I have this warlock with devil powers." Because Angels shows us that it's really much, much more complicated than that.
2. I still haven't gotten a good read through the Neverwinter setting, but I have read Salvatore's books. I think because of the time difference, Angels may not be a perfect meld with Neverwinter, in the same way that Shadowbane stumbled a little matching up against the same series (depicting Luskan). I would have liked to see more "easter eggs" like the Arunika thing connecting the two. That would require some coordination with a super-best-selling author though, so I don't know how possible that is. Salvatores books often feel much different than other Realms books (at least in my opinion). If the series moves to Waterdeep (as the ending implied), it would be nice to see connections to the Waterdeep series, especially since Erin wrote one of those. Where is Tennora? And Lorcan would look great in a pair of hydra-skin boots...
3. If you're reading a D&D novel and you're surprised the main character isn't human, you're probably in the wrong section of the book store. I think Fari being Tiefling was one of the best things about this book. Also, I think a young girl isn't necessarily that uncommon, even in D&D novels. I'm just finishing Venom in her Veins that has a young, female Yuanti protagonist, and there are a number of more recent releases that have the same (The God Catcher for one and City of the Dead which we read here as well). As a male reader, it doesn't bother me at all. In some ways, I think male readers like reading stories from a female perspective. How else are we supposed to understand what's going on in those Chaotic Evil minds!
4. I think you gave us part of the answer about Brin. It's clear that he's more than just a noble, but the rest isn't a mystery I personally need uncovered yet (especially knowing there's a sequel on the way). I thought he might end up having to reveal something to save them, but I'm not disappointed either way. The one thing that still nags me about Brin is that he let Havilar be dragged away. The whole time before Mehen saved her I'm thinking, "I know Havilar isn't going to die, but there's a real chance that she could have been sacrificed before Mehen got to her." Brin doesn't back down from an erinyes, but he's afraid to take on Yvon, even knowing his one trick is the paralization pendant. I'm probably making a big deal out of nothing, but to me that just seemed cowardly. If I'm Havilar, that's going to be something that's going to bother me down the road, especially if she's going to still consider him a potential romantic interest.
I've read the cover copy for Lesser Evils and I'm not sure all my pressing questions are going to be answered in one more book. They better sign you for the trilogy!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 2:06PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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On another note, anyone want to guess at what Rohini's prophecies were about? Here's a few of them:
The blade of the gods will sever the cord of the moon
the last of the anchors hides in the city of crowns, and the shadow will extinguish the light therin
the daughter will claim -
In the space between twilights, the favored one will return
the dead will swarm the gates of the city of skulls
I'll favor a guess a few of them:
The "city of crowns" is Myth Drannor. If the shadow is going to extinguish the light therein, is this possibly referring to the return of the drow? This is the big plot with the Encounters season right now.
"the daughter will claim" might refer to Glasya claiming the throne from Asmodeus?
Does the "blade of the gods" refer to Bruce Cordell's character The Sword of the Gods? Is he going to kill the moon goddess?
Which city is the city of skulls?
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 2:40PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2010
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One of the best books this board has read in a while--very good discussion as well--thank you for participating! I had a blast!
> 1. If you game, was there anything about this book that inspired you to game differently?
I played a Dragon Born two seasons ago in Encounters & struggled with finding any personality outside of this kind of Defender of Water Paladin thing--I think I could do better having read this book. > 2.If you've played with the Neverwinter game materials (or even just read Salvatore's trilogy)
> did you feel like Brimstone Angels enhanced that experience?
Oh Totally! I played the neverwinter season of Encounters & found this to fit into that 'feel' very nicely. I also REALLY liked the evil Chasm feel you created. > 3. This book has a bit of a nontraditional protagonist in a couple of ways.
> I've definitely heard concerns
From Whom? A man needs a name...
> that a non-human character is too much for readers to get behind,
> and a teenaged girl is off-putting to male readers.
Really? I find this suprising on both points... I would think that this is mostly coming from people who do not read a lot--White Male reliable narrators have been unheard of as far as I can tell since 1930...None of the characters felt 'non-human' to me--I could relate to their emotions, etc. We were not dealing with Miéville's Ariekei. The teenage [or should that be teenaged] female narrator is a staple in literature--anyone that claimed to be put off by that needs to go re-read Anne Frank, right? > What do you think of this truism?
I find it baffling & likely false--ideally, I can mock this position until someone here expresses it...At least then we will know if it is true!
> 4. How mad are you that I didn't answer the question of Brin?
Another interesting question. I am not mad. I liked Brin as a 'romantic' object for the protaganists--his 'history' was designed as 'mystery' and that was a lot of his appeal, I thought, to the characters. Resolving that mystery will likely only complicate the romantic side of the story--which I did not think was required. I would likely have been mad if all of Brin's back story came out at once.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 2:53PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2010
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 2:58PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2010
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The blade of the gods will sever the cord of the moon
the daughter will claim -
I think you nailed these two!
the last of the anchors hides in the city of crowns, and the shadow will extinguish the light therin
This sounds Abyssal Plague related to me...I am guessing we will learn that there are Anchors in each realm in which it is occuring or something...
In the space between twilights, the favored one will return
Elminister? Mystra? This is a good one--I think she is spinning a bad Twilight joke in here somehow...
This may be the best game we have ever played!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 3:36PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2010
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I know that pacing is a topic that seems to keep coming back up in a few of the sections we read, and it seems to me that this last section is the quickest moving of them all.
Agreed! The ending was completely awesome.
Giant Tenticle Creatures emerging from the Chasm dripping with Far Realm taint fighting Devils on the streets of Neverwinter!
It does not get much better than that--totally fun over the top--D&D at it's finest--I loved the 'look' of that battle--and the reminder of the Watch with their bows providing a chorus to all of the action--just big cinematic goodness.
Glaive to the back, but she does not burst into flames? My reader sense was TINGLING!
The Bee's. I love these bees & hope that the next book sees one of them as a central character!
However, I did not feel so great about the Epilogue--several other readers have commented how classic it felt, how difficult it is to write good 'God Dialog', how perfectly the characters personalities were presented, etc. I felt that it kind of pulled the curtains back a little to far on the inner workings of Hell--I like the motivations of my Devils to be Incomprehensible in their complexities, the Games they play reaching so far into the future that we cannot possibly understand them. By showing some of the relationship between Asmodeus and his daughter, some of the magic of the mystery of their odd relationship was taken away, in my opinion. Like Greek Drama never really showing the blood on the stage, but rather leaving it off stage where the readers immagination makes is more horrible then words--these seen just showed a little to much for me...and the ending with the Crossroads "you are under arrest' 'No! YOU are under arrest' was just so great--I did not need the Epilogue, but if something had to be there I could have done with out this Devil Courtroom Drama, and had something more like Lorcan returning to the political landscape from which he emerged, but his Swiss, laissez faire, slacker non-involvement position having been changed--now he has a 'life' which he seeks to 'defend'--his? hers? who knows--but his attitude toward the game [and his sisters] has changed.
And again, if I have not said it enough, this book club is really one of my favorite things on the WotC forums--so much fun to read along with everyone!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 7:46PM
#10
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In the space between twilights, the favored one will return
Elminister? Mystra? This is a good one--I think she is spinning a bad Twilight joke in here somehow...
This may be the best game we have ever played!
Clearly, the favored one returning is a reference to Kristen Stewart playing Snow White in between the last two Twilight films. Clearly. 
Will post my thoughts on the end tomorrow or soonish. Short form - loved it!
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