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Jun 14, 2012 -- 1:18PM, ErinMEvans wrote:

Gemini--What or who was your Devilslayer?

In the first long-running campaign I DMed (2nd edition, but at a time when the first wave of 3rd edition books were coming out, so there was a lot of 3.0 influence), there was a powerful magic weapon called Devilslayer.  It was a +3 greataxe, but it acted as a +5 evil outsider bane weapon, dealing 1d12 + 2d6 + 5 + Str + Wpn Spec dmg against the devils who were acting as major villains.  The weapon had been used by a legendary hero to slay the first form of this demigod who was my big baddie (he had extreme psionic mastery, as well as the ability to summon and control devils, which was odd really, because he served a Tharizdun-like imprisoned Chaotic Evil deity; I was young and didn't fully get the cosmologic implications), and then was rediscovered by the party and inherited by Dado's fighter with the barbarian kit.

So, here's hoping Havi's Devilslayer is on its way to becoming a legend itself!  Lots of targets to choose from to live up to its namesake, but I'm thinking the biggest target would be Rohini, who as you said violated Havi's safe space.  I'm itching to see what happens in the last section!

Erin, you're making plenty of sense, especially for a new mother. 

Lorcan is turning out to be one of the most interesting characters we've ever discussed in these forums, and I think that's because it's one of the first times an author has examined the very nature of what it would mean to be "half devil."  I admit, it's hard not to simply see him as an abusive boyfriend and hope that Farideh gets him right the hell out of her life, but the very nature of the pact and the fact that he's from the hells makes it a little more complicated.  I can see how a reader not as familiar with D&D might be completely annoyed by him.

Lorcan and Farideh are obviously developing a bond between one another despite their constant bickering (or maybe because of it).  I'm wondering how many people are going to throw their books at the wall at this point if there's a scene that plays out like:  "I hate you Lorcan."  "I hate you too Farideh."  *kiss kiss love love.*  Is anyone rooting for this to happen?  I know that would be a little cliche, but I can see a more complicated version where maybe they give into their passions and then Lorcan does what Lorcan does best and disappoints Farideh afterwords by doing/saying something really stupid.  I guess we'll have to wait and see!

I agree with Gemini (alas, I can't remember your Devilslayer at the moment...)  that Brin is still the biggest enigma in the book.  Why is his power so fleeting?  And why does he seem so valuable?  And where is his damn sister!?  Also, is Brin attracted to either Farideh or Havilar?  It doesn't seem like he is going to return Havi's feelings.  I felt the scene where he walked away from her being tied up by Yvon (despite the attempt to justify it in the text) to be a little telling.  If you're falling in love with someone at all, you don't watch them get dragged off by a cultist.

Ultimately, it creates a better dynamic if Brin is falling for Fari, because this makes Lorcan jealous, which is very amusing.  Fari seems completely uninterested in him though, which is funny because Havilar seems like she's falling hard at this point.  I don't know what to expect from Lesser Evils, but I'm thinking someone has to come on the scene to both give Lorcan competition/make him jealous, and give Farideh another option.  OK, OK, I'll stop trying to turn this into Twilight now.

I also agree that the scene where the possessed Havilar slaughters the cultists was particularly gruesome.  I think it shows that these devils mean business, and it was also good writing that Havilar seems shaken by what she's done for a long time after this.

And I have no idea what in the hells Rohini/Glasya are up to with these aboleths!  I don't think I'm going to be able to wait until Monday...

A new mommy huh? I remember those days and many of them were sleepless nights. It gets easier in terms of sleep!

I certainly hope so. We're seven months in, but he still wakes up 3-4 times a night and naps...well, I got him to sleep about 15 minutes ago and he just woke up again. I'll be back.  

Jun 17, 2012 -- 6:04PM, ErinMEvans wrote:

 But now I'm curious: Who's rooting for what pairing(s)? Or are you just hoping everyone just stays out of each other's pants so we can get more devil-killing in? (Again, no worries about undue influence. I've pretty much already decided how this is going to go for the next few [potential] books, but I'm curious.)

I'm going to admit it, I'm the kind of person who does like a little romance in their fantasy.  I mean, it is fantasy after all, right?  Also, I feel that as humans, so much of what people do in their lives is directly linked to sex, romance, and love.  So, I'm definitely not one of those people saying "stop all the kissy stuff and get to the killing" like Fred Savage in The Princess Bride (although even Fred admits later on the kissing isn't so bad).

I think the most natural pairing would be Farideh and Lorcan, for obvious reasons.  They have the classic love/hate relationship that borders on abusive (OK, they've crossed the border) and these passions could easily boil over.  Lorcan is also in the older guy/mentor role, and chicks love mentors/professors, right?  (I once heard a literary agent say: "if I have to read one more submission from a male college professor who's written a novel about his affair with a young female student, I'm going to stop reading all together.")  I see this being a relationship where they're constantly on again/off again.  Very hot/cold.  Which means one or both of them have to have another love interest to cause drama (Jarlaxle would call this "intrigue").  Brin fits naturally for Farideh as a counterbalance to Lorcan, and this would drive Lorcan completely nuts with jealousy (as we've already seen). Of course, this happens in real life all the time where the girl realizes the older-guy-bad-boy isn't the fantasy she thought he would be and goes for someone her age and much more tempered.  This scenario is also going to make Havilar really upset, seeing as she's been flirting with Brin quite a bit.  I like Havilar a lot, so I'm rooting for her in general, but not necessarily to be with Brin.  She seems like she needs someone new in her life.  Brin isn't going to be able to keep up with her! For the maximum drama, you probably want to introduce a new someone (maybe a devil, cambion, or tiefling) to tempt Farideh, possibly one that she is infatuated with, but who actually is more interested in Havilar (maybe because she's un-claimed/branded).  Then everyone is in love with the person who is in love with someone else and you have either a Shakesperean comedy or Brimstone Angels: The Soap Opera.

I think you're right Erin, I'm starting to care a little too much for these characters. Nice job! 

Jun 17, 2012 -- 6:55PM, dadocollin wrote:

I'm going to admit it, I'm the kind of person who does like a little romance in their fantasy.  I mean, it is fantasy after all, right?  Also, I feel that as humans, so much of what people do in their lives is directly linked to sex, romance, and love.  So, I'm definitely not one of those people saying "stop all the kissy stuff and get to the killing" like Fred Savage in The Princess Bride (although even Fred admits later on the kissing isn't so bad).

Heh. Before the book released, a discussion popped up on Amazon worrying that WotC had sold out by sneaking romance into serious fantasy in this book (also Dawnbringer, I believe). While I'm sure that's a concern for the reader that posted, I had to laugh--most of the serious fantasy I can think of has romantic subplots. Just not a whole lot from the woman's perspective, I guess?

 Lorcan is also in the older guy/mentor role, and chicks love mentors/professors, right?  (I once heard a literary agent say: "if I have to read one more submission from a male college professor who's written a novel about his affair with a young female student, I'm going to stop reading all together.")

I think that says more about those mentor/professor types than their students.

I do like a romantic subplot, but not an unnecessary one. I feel like often writers plug it in as if adding a "beautiful princess" (or really, a beautiful caster or rogue) and having their hero fall for her in Chapter 17 is required. But the "reward" shouldn't be the point of a subplot in my opinion. No chemistry? Take it out. 

I also have to say I really prefer a romantic subplot with a bit more realism. Love is hard and confusing and often misdirected. People change and change back and what a character needs isn't always just a magic kiss at the castle gates and a ring. And sometimes that ring has to come off. If you are engaged by the characters and the story's paced right, messy is always better.

I'm not going to confirm or deny anything (of course) but I do hope that this series at least makes for an engaging ride.