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13 months ago ::
Jun 04, 2012 - 5:07AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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I think we lost a few people over the holiday week, so I'm going to slow us down just a little bit to give people some time to catch up. This forum will cover chapters 12-13, pages 201-239. If you're a super-fast reader and ahead of the game, feel free to pick up another D&D novel to bide your time. I'd recommend Tim Pratt's Venom in Her Veins. I have a copy of this I'm reading to review and when I got it the first thing that went through my mind was: "Oh no, this is the token Yuan-ti novel. This is going to be horrid." Turns out Mr. Pratt is an extremely accomplished Hugo-winning fantasy author and the book is awesome. Who knew Yuan-ti could be so exciting? I'm also going to try and write a blog detailing the near-disaster that was the first session of D&D Encounters with my family. Turns out my 13-year-old son is a more mature player than my 63-year-old mother... Looking forward to your thoughts!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 04, 2012 - 9:50AM
#2
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Thought number one: I love Lorcan's curses!
And he has great reason to be cursing - this is the section where everything is falling apart, at least for Farideh and Lorcan. The vast amount of schemes in Neverwinter have ensnared both of them. I'm wondering what will become of Lorcan, now that his mother has basically disowned him and called for his capture/execution. Plus, Rohini's charm touch has been wreaking havoc on seemingly everyone. Brin, at least, has regained his wits. Still wondering just who he is...
And poor Mehen. When Havi found him, and then when Brin found him, both times I've been wondering if he ever got his broken wrist and bleeding wounds fixed, or if Rohini just left him there injured.
I liked the scene with Glasya and Invadiah, and the followup with Rohini and Sairche. I'm wondering when/how the summons will be used; if we'll see it within the last 100 pages here, or at the end to foreshadow the next book, or maybe it will wait until then.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 05, 2012 - 5:40AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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This section ended with a real cliffhanger! The wheels truly are falling off the cart for poor Lorcan. I also found it amusing that Sairche totally ratted him out, but then didn't get what she wanted and realized that she didn't benefit herself much by betraying him.
I'm wondering how these two erinyes are going to sneak around Neverwinter hunting Lorcan without being noticed. In my head, they're one wrong hoof away from Drizzt Do'Urden twinkling them to bits. (Of course, then I remember the time difference in novels and Drizzt may not even be around this area anymore.)
Gemini, I think you're on to something with Brin. The more I think about it, his sister (I think it was his sister) who is after him has a bounty on her head simply for losing him. He must be pretty important. I think that will be one of the big mysteries unfolding at the end of this. And where is ol' Tam when you need him? That temple of Selune was mysteriously empty...
Lorcan becomes more and more interesting as a character, along with his relationship with Farideh. He really is turning out to be an abusive boyfriend type. I thought he might redeem himself at some point, but their relationship has all the signs of an abusive mess, and he's only been making it worse as he loses control. But I guess that's the crux of the situation - without Lorcan, Farideh loses her powers. It's almost like a woman who stays in a relationship because she has no where else to turn for money, influence, etc. It looks like her only way out is to pick another devil, who will probably just abuse her even worse. I'm getting a little disturbed wondering just how poor Farideh's plot is going to be resolved!
(I suppose she could just become Lorcan's submissive and then you could title the sequel "50 Shades of Red." I think that's what women are into reading these days... *gag*)
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12 months ago ::
Jun 05, 2012 - 11:03AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2010
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Ok--So pacing has been a theme for me so far with this Book & in these discussions.
I was running about week behind on the readings when I sat down last night to try to catch up. I am now on Chapter 16.
Suddently this book has become one of those books that I just cannot put down--totally loving it.
I am going to avoid plot discussions. I think one of the challenges with eReaders is that keeping track of where you are in the book, the page number, etc. can be a challange. It requires a lot more focus with Kindle to keep track of where you are then it does with a paperback. Of course, this limitation is totally dwarfed by the ability to immediately look up word definitions.
Which leads me to my comment this week, I learned two new words: abattoir--A slaughterhouse. pauldron--is a component of plate armour
Both of which I think I should have known--I may have to turn in my DCI card!
In any event, my question is when writing Fantasy literature how much time with a Thesauras is required? I know that Forgotten Realms has its own kind of slang language, but what about historical terms. Do you just know all of the words for the various parts of medieval churches or do you spend time finding these words? How much time do you spend on word choice? Are these words added in during revision to spice things up or do you find words in other readings that you just MUST include?
I know that when I have done NaNoWriMo and run my novel through that thing in MS Word that tells you what grade level you write at I am always very very embarrased!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 1:21PM
#5
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I enjoyed the comments from Gemini, Dado, and David. Nice observations. I’m also wondering about Brin. And we haven’t seen Tam for a while now, but I have a feeling he’s going to play an important role in this story, too. Farideh is really stuck, isn’t she. In my mind, her only hope of survival and peace is to somehow convince (or trick, or blackmail) Lorcan into an understanding in which they basically leave each other alone. But she’s going to need her special powers. Neverwinter is a dangerous place. A lot more dangerous than I had thought. And without the powers of the pact I don’t think Farideh would last long. I particularly enjoyed Farideh’s ability to take a short breather in the protection of the church. I like to think that a good god would allow protection and rest for anyone – even one who has made a deal with the devil. Perhaps there is hope after all?
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12 months ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 3:48PM
#6
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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Ah! Finally home--and finally done with Lesser Evils. Boy, I am not looking forward to flying to Gen Con with that baby... And we're getting to the point where I am so tempted to spoil things! But I'll be good. I won't even tell you which ponderings get lots of attention in Lesser Evils. The notion of the warlock pact as an abusive relationship is absolutely intentional. I really hate the way such relationships are frequently painted in the media. Either they're really blatantly obvious, and the abused is painted as a downtrodden idiot or they're glorified as something romantic and healthy (like in Twilight). I have a friend who left her husband after realizing her situation was abusive--we were all very shocked and sad we hadn't spotted it. One thing that she told me afterward (that I believe a therapist passed on to her) was that whatever relationships we maintain, we're getting something out of them. Otherwise, we'd be gone. And it takes realizing that the things we're getting don't outweigh the things we're giving up to decide to cut ties (not accounting for the other person's criminal tendencies of course). Farideh is absolutely getting several things out of this deal. The question is, what are they worth? [I suppose she could just become Lorcan's submissive and then you could title the sequel "50 Shades of Red." I think that's what women are into reading these days... *gag*)
Dado--my previous editor joked about an over/under for how long it took for people to demand sex scenes. I will have to see who had seven months (kidding).
That book is really everywhere. It's funny what taps into people's book-buying cravings. I don't think you could have convinced me when I was slush mistress that a reskinned fanfiction BDSM romance would be the next big thing. I don't think you could have convinced me it would make back it's printing costs, to be honest. And I'll cop to thinking I would have bought Twilight.
In any event, my question is when writing Fantasy literature how much time with a Thesauras is required? I know that Forgotten Realms has its own kind of slang language, but what about historical terms. Do you just know all of the words for the various parts of medieval churches or do you spend time finding these words? How much time do you spend on word choice? Are these words added in during revision to spice things up or do you find words in other readings that you just MUST include?
Some time. I'm very much of the mind that you don't want to use weird words for the sake of their weirdness. That said, I'm a stickler for the correct word, and the word the point of view character would know. Farideh, for example, does probably know the names of pieces of armor. Nestrix from The God Catcher probably doesn't.
For things like that, yeah, it's a mix of going looking and picking it up along the way. "Abattoir" I happen to recall learning off the SAT word list, heh. "Pauldron" I had to look for. Wikipedia is enormously helpful for that sort of thing, if you know how to use it. (Obviously, if you're writing a story about an armormaker, you ought to consult more in-depth references than an encyclopedia). Church structure is one part memory (acolyte in a very old Episcopal church/architecture segment of G/T program) and one part searching to corroborate ("Blargh--Is it the nave or the narthex they're standing in?!"). I think if you know and love the words, you dfinitely keep an eye out for places you can use them. And sometimes in looking for theright word, you find new favorites (I found "tarn" in writing Lesser Evils. I bet it reappears at some point).
But again, I think it's critical to use them thoughtfully. I'm reminded of a (this will sound SUPER pompous, but bear with me) lecture I went to by Meave Leakey, shortly after she named the Kenyanthropus platyops specimen. This skull is made up of a zillion little pieces. It's easy to be really skeptical about it's veracity, and she acknowledged that. But she talked about putting it togetehr and how the pieces had to "click" or they weren't counted. If they didn't lie perfectly together, they didn't necessarily belong. You had to be sure you weren't just cobbling together pebbles and calling it a missing link.
I feel that way about "tarn" and "narthex" and "abattoir" and their ilk.
I know that when I have done NaNoWriMo and run my novel through that thing in MS Word that tells you what grade level you write at I am always very very embarrased!
I had no idea that Word still had that! How do you run it? (Office 2010 changed SO. MUCH. I used to be a whiz, and I'm STILL relearning how to do the sort of things I knew automatically...)
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12 months ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 7:59PM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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Thought number one: I love Lorcan's curses!
Okay, I'm going to be smug for a second: You haven't even seen his best one!*
*Unless you have seen the deleted scene on Brimstone Angels's facebook page. ** **No spoilers here, except that people like the book, and Lorcan's coolest swear is here. The cut scene is from a part that already happened.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 08, 2012 - 5:09AM
#8
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I am in the same boat as David right now. I was just over a week behind due to a bunch of commitments all falling into the same exact time on my calendar. Yesterday I picked up the book and said that I was not going to put it down until I got caught up. Next thing I know, I am finishing Chapter 15. This was the first book that I have ever read on an ereader so I had to go back and make sure that I hadn't accidentally skipped over a chapter or two.
Now that I have gone from way behind, to way ahead, I am afraid to mention anything specific...just in case I leak something from a chapter that we haven't done as a group.
What I will say is that this has become a very hard book to put down!! I actually came home from the midnight showing of Prometheus and picked up the ereader because I was wondering what was going to happen next. Luckily, I only read a couple of pages before I developed enough willpower to set the book down and not get too far ahead. Remember, bad things happen when adventurers leave the party.
I will have to go back and look at Chapter 12 and 13 so I can post again with specific thoughts and questions without giving anything away. Then I will have to play more Diablo 3 to try and help me resist the temptation to just sit down and finish the book.
Dado - I definitely will need to read your blog. I was thinking about using my family as guinea pigs and having them playtest D&D Next with me, since my gaming group is on hiatus right now due to conflicting schedules.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 08, 2012 - 7:18AM
#9
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Thought number one: I love Lorcan's curses!
Okay, I'm going to be smug for a second: You haven't even seen his best one!*
*Unless you have seen the deleted scene on Brimstone Angels's facebook page. ** **No spoilers here, except that people like the book, and Lorcan's coolest swear is here. The cut scene is from a part that already happened.
I just went and read it - and you're right, that is one of the best curses I've ever laid eyes on!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 08, 2012 - 1:26PM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2009
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Thank you! I was so freaking pleased when I thought that up. I feel like when you get into conversations about swearing in fantasy, people who are against using real world swears will so often suggest using "[God's name] [body part/attribute]!" as a swear. Which would be more world-appropriate in some sense, but it's also ultimately not achieving what a curse word would--namely, showing intense emotion, profanity or a desire to shock. "Bane's balls" might be terribly upsetting to a Faerunian. It's kind of twee to a modern reader (actually, I think Tymora's t**s is even more adorable, but I'm not 100% sure I'm supposed to type that). So I generally roll my eyes at this tack, it's just not right to my ear. Better to say, "He cursed" and keep going. But I think that one manages to be world-appropriate, profane and a little shocking all in one shot.  Incidentally, I went back and looked at the chapters we're talking about (I forget when exactly everything happens at this point). You guys have broken at possibly the moment of highest tension in the book! I'm very impressed with those of you who stopped. And I see why those of you who've read ahead are declining to participate in plot discussions--stuff gets crazy in the next two chapters.
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