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WotC Novels Dark Sun Book Club Discussion - City Under the Sand -...
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Switch to Forum Live View Book Club Discussion - City Under the Sand - Sections 19-22
2 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2010 - 2:19PM #1
dadocollin
Date Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 505
There's a lot of resolution to happen in these last few sections, so let's get to it!

This forum will cover sections 19-22:

XIX - The Fort
XX - Confession
XXI - Nibenay
XXII - Afterwards

That's pages 320-387 (the end).  Looking forward to your thoughts, as always. 
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 14, 2010 - 11:53AM #2
dadocollin
Date Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 505
OK, just finished up City Under the Sand at lunch today, and it really shot forward to the ending. (If you haven't finished it, you may want to stop reading here!)

My thoughts on the last section and the story as a whole tend a little toward the negative, but I'll break it up for comparison's sake.

The Positive

First and foremost, Jeff Mariotte resolved the plot and all his dangling plotlines, something that all fantasy authors struggle with when your story really gets momentum, but you've only got one book to tell it.  There was just enough opening at the end that you could continue these adventures yourself, or you could even see Aric coming back for a sequel someday, but not enough that it matters or is going to keep anyone up at night.

I like the fact that throughout the book, Aric is sort of a newbie hero - he's trying to fulfill his destiny, but he's also being honest about his feelings and how fun (he actually says this at the end) the whole thing can be.  I don't know if all that killing and stuff would be that much fun, or finding out your father was a serial killer, but at least he's not pretending to be all honor and seriousness.  Sometimes it's refreshing to see a hero who is willing to admit things that we know we'd all feel in their position, but is taboo to say.

I did enjoy the final battle scene with the demon and how Nibenay and his head wife underestimate it and Aric has to do the dirty work to finish it off.  It brought everything to a believable conclusion.  And let's face it, Jeff Mariotte had a pretty big mountain (or desert as the case may be) to climb writing the first Dark Sun novel.  In many ways, this novel is probably testing the waters for future offerings as well as trying to sell a campaign setting to the readers.  He had quite a bit of introductions to the world, monsters, and weapons to do while trying to tell a story, and he did a proficient job at that.

The Negative

I'm not a fan of how Jeff resolved the whole serial killer angle.  Rieve's father or grandfather was the obvious choice for me, and that's who it ended up being.  I was surprised to find out that her father was also Aric's but it just seemed too convenient. And then to top it off some scorpion kills him before he'll face justice.  Convenient.  (Even Aric comments about how convenient it was!) Overall, I like the idea of mixing a crime novel with a fantasy one, but I feel like you could have removed this entire serial killer plot and it wouldn't have changed the story at all, which means it was completely extraneous, so it probably should have been cut.

I'm a little tired of seeing Star Wars ripped off over and over again, so it was somewhat exhausting to read through the whole daddy reveal, only to then find out that Aric and Rieve are siblings, and can't consummate their feelings.  Hello Luke and Leia.  Except in this version, Leia runs off and joins the convent and Han is left with some other girl who is basically invisible in the final 100 pages of the novel.  Speaking of Myrana, she changed her feelings rather quickly from Aric to Corlan, without much explanation besides them "comforting each other."  This felt a lot like another fantasy trope of the cast-off love interests of the main characters getting together in the end (think Eowyn and Faramir).  Once Rieve came back on the scene, there really wasn't much focus on Myrana at all.

The fact that Aric is left with basically no one and then ends up just deciding to leave all his new friends really didn't make much sense to me at all.  Or maybe he really is Luke Skywalker.  Wait, he did make his own sword (lightsaber).  At least he didn't lose a hand.

Worst of all, he still has the hots for his sister.  So we were led to believe he was going to end up with two different women, only to find up he's going off alone.  Remind me to never give this book to my wife to read.

Overall

At the end of the day, I think I liked this book more than I disliked it.  I'm not sure I'd recommend it to other readers, especially if they've read a lot of fantasy.  The first half of the book was much stronger than the second half, and I think Jeff Mariotte simply ran out of real estate.  I hate thinking that every fantasy book needs to be 800 pages or a trilogy, but in this case it might have made for a much more satisfying story.  I like the Dark Sun setting though, and I think I'd read another book from it.

That reminds me of one more thing - we never got to see Nibenay!  I thought for sure that would be a big reveal at the end.  I don't want to spoil it for everyone, but I'll say this - if you're curious about him, pick up the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.  You'll be in for a surprise when you see his true form . . .


 
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 4:19PM #3
gold_piece
Date Joined: Jun 4, 2008
Posts: 579

I just finished the book this afternoon. And then I read Dado’s comments. I think I enjoyed Dado’s write-up more than the end of the story! But let me organize some thoughts.


I liked City Under the Sand very much. My biggest “like” is that it had the gritty, dangerous feeling of Dark Sun from beginning to end. I felt like I was there on the desert world of Athas. I was hot during the day and cold at night. I love it how the characters were each free and slave at the same time. Well done, Jeff.


I also really enjoyed Aric. He was a likable and believable hero. I think I connected to him on some level. I suppose we all have a feeling that we have a special gift that no one else really understands and we’re wondering how we’re going to put that gift to use.


Being new to Dark Sun, I think Jeff did a fantastic job explaining and describing the world. Don’t you feel like you understand life in Nibenay after reading the story? Isn’t the life of a sorcerer-king fascinating? I’m not currently playing in a Dark Sun D&D game, but if I do, I think reading this story will make the game experience far more interesting.


My only complaint, really, is similar to Dado’s. The story seemed to end too abruptly without an adequate resolution of all the loose ends. Why did Corlan and Myrana end up together? Did the templars simply accept the story that it was Myklan who was the serial killer? Did Aric end up getting paid for his services to Nibenay (the city) as Nibenay (the king) promised him? It’s almost like Jeff ran out of either time or space and wrapped everything up too quickly.


Although the ending wasn’t my favorite, that certainly doesn’t ruin the story for me. This was one of my favorite books in a long time. I’m very pleased that we chose to read it and I’ve enjoyed the discussion a great deal. I would definitely recommend City Under the Sand to any D&D or Dark Sun fan.


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2 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2010 - 6:46AM #4
dadocollin
Date Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 505
Now that I've had a few days to think about it, and after reading GP's post, I can remember really liking this book for the first half, and I think my overall assessment leaned negative just because I didn't like the resolution of the plot(s) much at all.  It's difficult to tell what adds into that happening at the tail end of a book - running out of space, time, etc. - but I wouldn't really want to discourage others from reading the book simply based on a not-so-great ending.  I also read Gauntlgrym recently, which had an epic, awesome ending, and so perhaps I'm a bit spoiled.  Ultimately, City Under the Sand did complete its primary mission - introducing new readers to the Dark Sun world. 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 26, 2011 - 9:56AM #5
Alphastream1
  • Dragon Slayer
  • If only he would apply himself
  • Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 4,642
I finally read this book recently (so much to do, so little time). I had a number of issues with it, but most of them were pretty forgivable. The amount of metal on Athas, for example, varies widely from one canon source to another. I can nitpick how it was dealt with at times in this novel, but overall it was fine. I liked a lot of the story concepts and I really dug the different ways the novel worked to make Athas different from other worlds. There was a lot of respect for the setting. I did have issues with the editing. There were just constant streams of typos and I'm not used to finding those in D&D books. I can still recommend this book. Overall I had fun with it.

If I had any stronger negative reactions (such as to how the plot resolved), those faded away as I am now reading Under the Crimson Sun. That novel has lots of typos and seems to capture Athas far less well. The multitude of characters and contradictions in writing... I am so far not enjoying that book at all, though I'll save my comments should a thread come up for that one.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!

Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 27, 2011 - 5:38AM #6
davidgiven
Date Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 275
While reading your review, the first thing that came to me was seething jealousy over your four WotC Badges--but then it came to me--Why not have a Book Club Badge?

You know like the DDI, VT Sage, Play Tester, & Lair Assualt badges [there may be more]--I think we should pester WotC about coming out with a set of badges for people that read their novels--like an old Tome looking thing or something--not only a good perk for participating in these discussions, but also a way for them to get the word out about their books.

I am going to send Support a Message!

In other news, I have not read either of the recent Dark Sun Novels--not so much because I fear they will deviate from Cannon, more because of a lack of time. The comments on Under the Crimson Sun have me very worried--I was stoked when this book was announced--a DS tie in to the Abyssal Plague just seemed *wrong*, but I was really hoping that they would carry it off well...sounds like not so much... 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 27, 2011 - 5:40AM #7
davidgiven
Date Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 275
//begin
Our system is down while we make updates. 
We apologize for any inconvenience and look forward to being up again soon! 

For more detailed information please check our help site here
//end

Customer Support Email is down? How is this even possible...maybe I will just pester Shelly & see if she can make it happen! 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 27, 2011 - 2:18PM #8
Alphastream1
  • Dragon Slayer
  • If only he would apply himself
  • Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 4,642
There was an update this morning (it should have been in your inbox as a DDI broadcast).

But, yeah, I'm unhappy about the Under the Crimson Sun book. Maybe it will improve.

On the badges, I am certainly not looking to make anyone feel down about them! Keep in mind playtesting comes with work, and the VT Sages was sort of similar. I try to do my best to earn them! Good idea on the badge for novels. Another one could be for how many sessions of Encounters a DM runs! I bet you have me beat in that department!
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!

Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 9:03AM #9
gold_piece
Date Joined: Jun 4, 2008
Posts: 579
Alpha - great to see you on the book club boards.  Feel welcome to join a discussion.


I don't know anything about Crimson Sun because I haven't read it.  I can say, however, that City Under the Sand was my favorite book of all the book club selections I've read so far.  It was the hardest story for me to put down each week and wait for the next session to open.    
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 28, 2011 - 10:00AM #10
davidgiven
Date Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 275
Great--now I am going to have to read it myself to see--damn you mixed reviews!

Case 110928-000119  WotC opened regarding Book Badges--also, started blogging about it to build a ground swell of support!

And I was mostly joking about your accomplishments--I know first hand how much work you did on the VT--you will be the first recepient of the Wheaton Rule Badge on these forums when it comes out--I really admire your ability to keep things positive in the community.
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