Pondering the direction of skills. I asked myself what skills would I say I possessed in my life. Sadly, I can only think of two exemplary (Carpentry and Performance - day job vs. aspiring actor). My conclusion is this: *Skills are vague in most cases - Looking at Perform (not a listed SKILL in this iteration as yet), obviously there are many types of performance (Dance, Oration, Acting, Painting, Sculpting, etc.). So it seems to me that a general Skill (ARTISTRY) can represent a sub-skill...
View full commentPondering the direction of skills. I asked myself what skills would I say I possessed in my life. Sadly, I can only think of two exemplary (Carpentry and Performance - day job vs. aspiring actor). My conclusion is this:
*Skills are vague in most cases - Looking at Perform (not a listed SKILL in this iteration as yet), obviously there are many types of performance (Dance, Oration, Acting, Painting, Sculpting, etc.). So it seems to me that a general Skill (ARTISTRY) can represent a sub-skill or several.
*Skills can vary with type of game - DRIVE, for instance isn't necessarily a useful skill for a fantasy game where most vehicles are animal powered. Handle Animal you say? As would I, but, should Handle Animal be generalized to all animals? Can a horse trainer equally be a lion tamer? I say no. But, If we generalize Handle Animal and produce sub-skills therein (Horses, Lions, Dogs, etc.), we can say that a skill an be flexible contingent on another factor. What might that be? See below.
*Advancement - Should a character that makes little use of a certain skill advance the same as one who makes greater use? IMO, no. How do we progress then? This is where we are with our playtesting.
SUMMERY:
*Skills should be an optional, but in the basic package.
*The list should include general/specific skills (under different game types - fantasy, sci-fy, dark age, etc.) The ability score to represent should be flexible depending on the group (i.e. - Climb might be Str or Dex based or average of both).
*A skill that can be broken down into sub-skills can be adjudicated by ability score modifiers. Handle Animal (potentially based out of Cha) might cover one or more animal types based on modifier.
*Base Modifier - IMO the Skill Die works.
*Advancement - Feat based. All start with their (four?) skills (which may have subs, broadening variety) and beginning level Skill Die (d8?). Buy Skill advancement with feats - die increase, specialist, etc.)
I've come to hate feats. They have this annoying tendency to 'bloat'. The worst kind are the ones granting fiddly conditional bonuses. Just replace all of them by templates that grant a set of abilities that work well together. THis also eliminates the need for system mastery, another thing I've come to dislike.
Umm, in my last session my level one party encountered a band of orcs. I went through both my magic missile spells, one of them empowered to do maximum damage, and I only killed one Orc. Granted, my first casting was split my missile between three different orcs (as they all were already damaged by a fire trap) but didn't kill a single one despite the fact that they were each already hurt. My second cast used my daily feat to empower them and two missiles hit one Orc and killed him, and one...
View full commentUmm, in my last session my level one party encountered a band of orcs. I went through both my magic missile spells, one of them empowered to do maximum damage, and I only killed one Orc. Granted, my first casting was split my missile between three different orcs (as they all were already damaged by a fire trap) but didn't kill a single one despite the fact that they were each already hurt. My second cast used my daily feat to empower them and two missiles hit one Orc and killed him, and one missile hit another Orc, and he still survived. After a short rest, I have one first level spell back, the fighter and rogue in the party have not lost any ability to do anything. This was just a random encounter on our way to a town (it was one Orc per party member) and it was our first encounter for the adventuring day. So I don't want to hear any nonsense about the uber power of magic missiles over other classes. Thank you.
Also, not a complaint, I am having fun playing my wizard, at least so far.
Maybe what they should do is have "classic" advancement, which is more of what we are used to and then "official advancement" for use in dnd encounters and living campaigns, as i suspect that's what is behind this move any way. Then people can chose. That could work but it involves not singling out the fast track approach as the default or "right" way to play. I know this for sure, it will fail miserable in its goal of attracting old school players back into the fold if they read that the...
View full commentMaybe what they should do is have "classic" advancement, which is more of what we are used to and then "official advancement" for use in dnd encounters and living campaigns, as i suspect that's what is behind this move any way. Then people can chose. That could work but it involves not singling out the fast track approach as the default or "right" way to play.
I know this for sure, it will fail miserable in its goal of attracting old school players back into the fold if they read that the default game is level every other session as it suggests the game was designed to again he something comlpleatly foreign to what they grew up with. As I said, I myself have been in games that house ruled quicker leveling tracks, and they were fun. But to define DnD as that kind of play won't go over well in winning people back.
This is great! I like how it uses basically the bones of every system for "skill aquistion" that has been presented in the different editions over the years, but presents them as options. I especially like how you're taken the concept of subabilities from skills and powers, and mixed it with a 1st edition/playtest compromise style check bonus.
Ummm...why not just keep it simple, ala the original 1st or second version of the AD&D game. I see it far too often that the issue is trying to be over complicated, or trying to overdefine the mechanics instead of the story. There were a bunch of additional appendices with the second edition that were there for DM's to utilize, so in essence i'd leave it up to them. Keep the system as it is, or was....
Because not everyone likes Vancian magic. I personally prefer spell points, because it provides a way to limit the power of spellcasters while, for me at least, it makes it a bit more fun to play as.
In my experience, the kinds of restrictions you mention do not make the party a "team". Instead, all the other party members become centered on shoring up the wizard's defenses. Because the wizard's attacks are often the most potent, all the other party members concentrate on making sure the wizard can get that potent attack off. This can create "sidekick syndrome" where the party tactic is "How can the rest of us help the wizard shine" rather than "How can we all help the team shine"?
and saving your wizard friend does not qualify as shining? I think there is a lot of attacking and being "out front" that goes with shoring up the wizard's defenses, there no room to shine there? Or do we need a phrase that includes "most" to shine, such as " I did the most damage" or "I killed the most bad guys" if that is what shining boils down to I guess I'm playing a different game.
Yes! that is correct--perfect balance is a myth. I remember a while back when one game designer was trying to justify the penalties given to a wood elf (FR) because they received bonuses to STR/DEX. According to him it was 'unfair' because physical trait bonuses were more of an advantage, therefore 2 INT, WIS, or CHA points had to be deducted for each. Some races or classes have more advantages than others (in some people's eyes), the trick is to break them down to their essence and get rid of...
View full commentYes! that is correct--perfect balance is a myth. I remember a while back when one game designer was trying to justify the penalties given to a wood elf (FR) because they received bonuses to STR/DEX. According to him it was 'unfair' because physical trait bonuses were more of an advantage, therefore 2 INT, WIS, or CHA points had to be deducted for each. Some races or classes have more advantages than others (in some people's eyes), the trick is to break them down to their essence and get rid of what doesn't work, or what makes them too advantageous for some. Despite my own complaints, nowadays I don't mind dark elves having a little less oomph in certain areas (as just one example). And I don't mind the ideas of wizards having some minor 'at will' capabilities if that should arise. There will always be some inherent disadvantages--a cavalier who gets a bonus while using his lance may not be able to enjoy it while crawling through the muck of the Underdark--but the 'disadvantage' in that case is merely logical.
One additional thought: please keep in mind that you can't "patch" a game like D&D like you can patch a computer game, since many people purchase physical books. You can't really run errata each month and expect someone to keep up with it all, or to even know about it. One problem with the previous edition was that there were so many substantive, core-rule changes that the books became worthless within months. Please don't do that to us again.
I never liked Kobolds as reptiles, I always preferred the dog people from 2e. Otherwise to barrow from Palladium, I like the idea that kobolds are smart, very smart. I'm fine with the other two.
View full commentI never liked Kobolds as reptiles, I always preferred the dog people from 2e. Otherwise to barrow from Palladium, I like the idea that kobolds are smart, very smart.
Overall our take on the key features missing from clerics is stronger linkage to their patron diety. It is the real defining characteristic of the cleric and indeed the Paladin, that they are earthly representatives of a transcendant power. To keep things simple keep the core spells but up power the domain or domains and/or add a Dedicated to XXXX patch, or specialty that includes additional follow in the divine path options. Our local games have a strong sense of the presence of the...
View full commentOverall our take on the key features missing from clerics is stronger linkage to their patron diety. It is the real defining characteristic of the cleric and indeed the Paladin, that they are earthly representatives of a transcendant power.
To keep things simple keep the core spells but up power the domain or domains and/or add a Dedicated to XXXX patch, or specialty that includes additional follow in the divine path options. Our local games have a strong sense of the presence of the gods and we have done similar things in other systems and are looking at doing it here.
Admittedly we are old hand players (1970 and 1974 vintage GMs -- and yes I meant 1970 :) ) so we are used to it and we do have a rich world to match.
''Goring Charge: On its turn, this creature can use its movement to move at least half its speed in a straight line and then use its action to make a special melee attack. This melee attack is a gore attack (+4 attack, 3d10 + 4 damage). If it hits, the target must also make a Strength save (DC 12) or be knocked prone and, on its next turn, the target cannot use its movement to do anything other than stand up or crawl.'' instead of ''Goring Charge: +4 ataque vs CA Hit: 3d10+4...
View full comment''Goring Charge: On its turn, this creature can use its movement to move at least half its speed in a straight line and then use its action to make a special melee attack. This melee attack is a gore attack (+4 attack, 3d10 + 4 damage). If it hits, the target must also make a Strength save (DC 12) or be knocked prone and, on its next turn, the target cannot use its movement to do anything other than stand up or crawl.''
instead of
''Goring Charge:
+4 ataque vs CA
Hit: 3d10+4 damage and the target falls prone.
Special: This attack can be made during a charge.''
So far, being a player and DM of the playtest, I like the direction DnDNext is heading. I see a lot of good debates as I have also played since I was 10 to 12, and now 40, so I can respect the angst at what may come. I will say this though. 4e was simple to set encounters for simple beat downs of the monsters if you didn't modify and add a monster or two. Sometimes, even more. Maybe when the system first came out, it was different. However, once many variations of characters, the many many...
View full commentSo far, being a player and DM of the playtest, I like the direction DnDNext is heading. I see a lot of good debates as I have also played since I was 10 to 12, and now 40, so I can respect the angst at what may come. I will say this though. 4e was simple to set encounters for simple beat downs of the monsters if you didn't modify and add a monster or two. Sometimes, even more. Maybe when the system first came out, it was different. However, once many variations of characters, the many many inconsistent erratta changes, and min maxing because 4e was built to min/max, it wasn't easy to make encounters anymore. In most situations you still have to recalculate everything, because the values or encounters were never enough.
Last wish... Please do not set level of damage or skill for monsters according to size... That really slams and boxes the DM being able to have a small tiny monster that totally surprises the party. Damage by size really pigeonholes the fantasy of anything and any size.. being powerful. That's why we have races such as gnome, halfling and the like. Thanks for listening.
One thing about #6 that I find strange is the notion of "If the fighter can get close, the wizard's dead." That seems to be the angry old-school consensus, along with the related "If the wizard can keep the fighter at a distance, the fighter is dead." Whatever happened to "I ready my bow and shoot him in his eye"? Why should a fighter's ranged attacks be less deadly than his up close ones, if he is truly versatile (#4 above). I admit, I do love the idea of balance across classes so I never...
View full commentOne thing about #6 that I find strange is the notion of "If the fighter can get close, the wizard's dead." That seems to be the angry old-school consensus, along with the related "If the wizard can keep the fighter at a distance, the fighter is dead." Whatever happened to "I ready my bow and shoot him in his eye"? Why should a fighter's ranged attacks be less deadly than his up close ones, if he is truly versatile (#4 above). I admit, I do love the idea of balance across classes so I never feel like my class was a bad choice unless I'm the one playing it badly. I don't want to be the wizard's caddie at high level anymore than I want to be his mommy at low level. I want him by my side, being awesome while I do the same. Our jobs aren't exactly the same, but I want to feel cool while I do mine and clap and yell encouragement as he does his. I very much loved the roles of different classes, and hoped that they would expand on that idea across classes. I wanted a wizard defender who wasn't a swordmage but instead used magic to up his defenses, who tanked the demon prince while wearing a dress and flip-flops, armed with a stick and a headful of hoodoo. One of the failings of 4th ed is they have never hammered out the martial idea enough to come up with a really good, solid martial controller. They took the idea of martial meaning "no magic at all" too far and painted themselves into a corner.
I actually totally agree a high level fighter should be able to hit a wizard with a bow attack, its just that on average arrows do less damage than heavy weapons since you don't get your str bonus unless you have a special bow, and this would mean it takes 3 or 4 rounds of arrows (whatever) to take down the wizard outright, giving the wizard hope of escape (teleport). I posted the earlier comment purely in response to #6 above suggesting that a high level fighter should be close to immune to a...
View full commentI actually totally agree a high level fighter should be able to hit a wizard with a bow attack, its just that on average arrows do less damage than heavy weapons since you don't get your str bonus unless you have a special bow, and this would mean it takes 3 or 4 rounds of arrows (whatever) to take down the wizard outright, giving the wizard hope of escape (teleport). I posted the earlier comment purely in response to #6 above suggesting that a high level fighter should be close to immune to a full assault of a high level wizard. I actually don't think of PC vs PC contests much when I play. I love playing wizards and I love playing barbarians, pretty much the two extremes role wise. I worry less about balance and more about fun.
*Skills are vague in most cases - Looking at Perform (not a listed SKILL in this iteration as yet), obviously there are many types of performance (Dance, Oration, Acting, Painting, Sculpting, etc.). So it seems to me that a general Skill (ARTISTRY) can represent a sub-skill...
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